Gun Raffle Question - Legality

Lumberjack98 · Post by **Lumberjack98** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:56 am

If you buy a pistol for a gun raffle, what legal responsibilities are you subject too when the pistol is given away?

I'm thinking that this would basically be treated like a private sale and you wouldn't have to have any forms filled out, but I want to make sure that I don't get myself into trouble either.

Thanks.

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:58 am

As far as I know, everyone who runs a raffle transfers the piece through an FFL.

That has the advantage of letting you sell tickets to remote people.

- Jim

RubenZ · Post by **RubenZ** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:36 am

My dad was a member of an organization and they would have raffles every year. The prizes were always 2 browning Shotguns. And like said above. You would take the Gun to a local FFL holder and the winner would pick it up there and do the transfer.

I also got my Remington 700BDL .270 with Leopold VariXII scope through a NRA raffle. Was very lucky on that one. I had to pick it up through a FFL.

Lumberjack98 · Post by **Lumberjack98** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:28 am

Is it required that it go through an FFL? Is that because it's not being sold? Would the price of an entry be considered the selling cost and we could look at it like a private sale?

BrassMonkey · Post by **BrassMonkey** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:32 am

Are you asking about Legality or Liability?

Lumberjack98 · Post by **Lumberjack98** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:33 am

BrassMonkey wrote:Are you asking about Legality or Liability?

Both

RubenZ · Post by **RubenZ** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:04 am

If you are the one who purchases it. You Raffle it off and the person who won raffles decides he's going to give it to uncle Joey who then gives it to his loser son who sells it to some thugs for money and they go kill someone with it and PD finds the gun and runs the Serial they will come after you.

Your better off going through a FFL just for liability reasons.

Renegade · Post by **Renegade** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:12 pm

RubenZ wrote:If you are the one who purchases it. You Raffle it off and the person who won raffles decides he's going to give it to uncle Joey who then gives it to his loser son who sells it to some thugs for money and they go kill someone with it and PD finds the gun and runs the Serial they will come after you.

And nothing happens. You just tell them who won it in a raffle, if you know.

Raffling a used gun? Otherwise I cannot see why you do not just leave it at the FFL you are acquiring it from.

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:25 pm

In that scenario, you probably would not be charged, but it would be uncomfortable.

It could also happen that the winner of the raffle was a prohibited person.

BTW, firearms that are raffled are usually donated, not purchased by the people running the raffle. They are often donated by dealers, in which case the transfer must be conducted by the dealer. A dealer cannot legally give away a firearm without paperwork.

- Jim

Lumberjack98 · Post by **Lumberjack98** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:14 pm

You've all given me things to think about.

The exact situation is that we're raising money for our club and we're taking the proceeds and purchasing a new pistol to give to the raffle winner and then the extra money will go to the club to purchase supplies.

We were hoping to have the pistol at the drawing so it could be presented to the winner and my thoughts were that since is was being given away by a non-dealer that we may not be subject to the rules that a dealer would be.

I still don't understand how this would not fall under the rules for a private sale vs. a dealer transaction.

Thanks again for you help and patience.

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:24 pm

Lumberjack98 wrote:I still don't understand how this would not fall under the rules for a private sale vs. a dealer transaction.

In my opinion (and I am still not a lawyer), having a raffle would be legally equivalent to a gift or private sale. No paperwork would be required by the feds, and Texas law does not require any.

The reasons to use an FFL are stated above and fall under the heading of cover yourself.

- Jim

BrassMonkey · Post by **BrassMonkey** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:39 pm

Work it out with a dealer to give away a "coupon" for a free pistol or something. He can bill the club.

Lumberjack98 wrote:You've all given me things to think about.

The exact situation is that we're raising money for our club and we're taking the proceeds and purchasing a new pistol to give to the raffle winner and then the extra money will go to the club to purchase supplies.

We were hoping to have the pistol at the drawing so it could be presented to the winner and my thoughts were that since is was being given away by a non-dealer that we may not be subject to the rules that a dealer would be.

I still don't understand how this would not fall under the rules for a private sale vs. a dealer transaction.

Thanks again for you help and patience.

HankB · Post by **HankB** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:35 pm

IANAL . . .

If you're raffling off the gun, it must be as part of a fund-raiser, so you're hoping to make a profit on it.

Doing it once, with a single firearm, looks OK to this non-lawyer, so long as you make some reasonable effort to be sure the winner isn't a "prohibited person." It seems to me that it would be hard to make the case that you're dealing firearms if a grand total of one gun is involved.

On the other hand, if you do this more than once, you may be considered by the BATmen to be engaged in the business of dealing in firearms.

People who are engaged in the business of dealing in firearms are supposed to have an FFL.

RubenZ · Post by **RubenZ** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:13 pm

You can still have gun at the Raffle so winner can see it and hold it etc. Just tell them they can pick it up the following day at a local dealer etc.

Seriously, while yes nothing will happen to you if the gun is involved in a crime, it really isn't worth the little trouble it takes to go through a FFL.

age_ranger · Post by **age_ranger** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:16 pm

I just looked into this and it's complicated. Basically, if the profit form the raffle goes to a charity or non-profit orginization, you probably won't get a second glance. However, if it's for personal profit, then those gaming laws will come into play. Several clubs have held raffles to raise money, but the money is put back into the club to run things. Doing a raffle on a forum is difficult since there would be participants from all over the US and since you'd be accepting entries and shipping to an out of state FFL (possibly) then federal laws would come into play.

I spoke to a very reliable and trusted source and the advice I got was "If you were my client and were asking me if you should do it, I'd tell you to stear clear of it"

(can't recall his exact and wise wording, but that's the basics of it)

I was hoping to do one for the Beretta Forum and it appears as if we're out of luck. Not sure what the possibility of doing it would be if NO profit was made, though. I'm not waiting in line to be the test case for it, though!