Plastic Guns and Accessories.
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Plastic Guns and Accessories.
The arguements about plastic pro and con have been pretty much settled. Although some love em others don't. Most of us agree that good quality plastic guns can be accurate and reliable. What I'm curious about is how long will they be around. Will our polymer guns be around 50, 100 years from now for future generations.
With steel as long as we keep them dry and oiled and don't wear it out it will last forever. It's been my experience that polymers can self-destruct over time just because of age. I don't know if this is true with the particular plastics that are used in quality guns and parts.
Does anyone own old plastic AR15s or Glocks have seen any deterioration? Are these guns capable of becoming generational heirlooms? Perhaps the polymers can outlast the wooden stocks of previous generations.
With steel as long as we keep them dry and oiled and don't wear it out it will last forever. It's been my experience that polymers can self-destruct over time just because of age. I don't know if this is true with the particular plastics that are used in quality guns and parts.
Does anyone own old plastic AR15s or Glocks have seen any deterioration? Are these guns capable of becoming generational heirlooms? Perhaps the polymers can outlast the wooden stocks of previous generations.
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Re: Plastic Guns and Accessories.
I have rifles from 1891 and 1905. Some Revolutionary era firearms are still with us.
The problem is storage. A couple years of careless storage and they are damaged.
I question heirloom status. I cannot think of anything plastic that is now an heirloom , though times are changing and it would be cool, always, to have grandpa's old gun. In shooting condition or not.
The problem is storage. A couple years of careless storage and they are damaged.
I question heirloom status. I cannot think of anything plastic that is now an heirloom , though times are changing and it would be cool, always, to have grandpa's old gun. In shooting condition or not.
Re: Plastic Guns and Accessories.
It's really hard to say. I think my Glocks and other polymer guns will be around in 50 years. And prob still shootable
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Re: Plastic Guns and Accessories.
Glock is about 35 years old. Well on its way to 50. Maybe they will never be as collectable as WWII 1911s. Colt Navy Revolvers. I also wonder about AR15s with polymer stocks.. Maybe the sheer volumes will keep their value as collectables down. What I wonder though is how durable over time they will be over time. I've seen plastic deteriorate over a period of time that has been kept inside and not subject to mechanical or environmental wear. Are the plastics used in our firearms subject to the same deterioration?cmgee67 wrote:It's really hard to say. I think my Glocks and other polymer guns will be around in 50 years. And prob still shootable
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Re: Plastic Guns and Accessories.
This is an excellent question.Liberty wrote:Glock is about 35 years old. Well on its way to 50. Maybe they will never be as collectable as WWII 1911s. Colt Navy Revolvers. I also wonder about AR15s with polymer stocks.. Maybe the sheer volumes will keep their value as collectables down. What I wonder though is how durable over time they will be over time. I've seen plastic deteriorate over a period of time that has been kept inside and not subject to mechanical or environmental wear. Are the plastics used in our firearms subject to the same deterioration?cmgee67 wrote:It's really hard to say. I think my Glocks and other polymer guns will be around in 50 years. And prob still shootable
I have some high end camera equipment that, over the years, has deteriorated because of the type of plastic that they used.
These were stored in a safe in the garage [not temperature/humidity controlled].
The surface is very tacky and leaves a black stain on my hands when I try to clean it.
Of course this is a different material than the polymer used in firearms.
There have been many advances in polymer science so the current materials are much better than in the past.
I would guess that the polymer guns from major companies like Glock, Beretta, S&W will be fine.
In order to qualify for sales to the military, the guns have to go through some pretty tough tests.
In addition to the functional tests there are accelerated ageing tests which simulate long term exposure to heat and humidity.
Of course the simulation isn't exactly real life, but most of the testing is very severe so I think that any problems would show up.
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Re: Plastic Guns and Accessories.
The Remington Nylon 66 was the first gun to utilize DuPont Zytel, which I think is probably the basis for plastic frames and those stocks show no signs of deterioration. The AR platform has been around 60 years, shows no signs of losing it's appeal and has only gained in popularity as I'm sure you know. How long they will be around is anyone's guess. My first glimpse and handling of Colt AR's in the 60's was selling them and they were not popular. I think the initial AR10 material was phenolic, later nylon. I thought they were disgustingly ugly and an insult to the aesthetics and fine art of firearms manufacturing with walnut and blued steel. My initial thoughts on plastic framed pistols was a mix of curiosity and a little doubt. Obviously my doubt was misplaced and I now own several. Though I love wood and steel I now consider the AR one of the most beautiful weapons ever created. The conformation is pleasing to my eye and the genius of the design is amazing to me. I think the pistols will be around for a long, long time; still shooting, more and more pleasing to the eye and maybe in beautiful display cases.Liberty wrote:Glock is about 35 years old. Well on its way to 50. Maybe they will never be as collectable as WWII 1911s. Colt Navy Revolvers. I also wonder about AR15s with polymer stocks.. Maybe the sheer volumes will keep their value as collectables down. What I wonder though is how durable over time they will be over time. I've seen plastic deteriorate over a period of time that has been kept inside and not subject to mechanical or environmental wear. Are the plastics used in our firearms subject to the same deterioration?cmgee67 wrote:It's really hard to say. I think my Glocks and other polymer guns will be around in 50 years. And prob still shootable
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Re: Plastic Guns and Accessories.
Nylon is a very strong and durable plastic. It was used as a fiber to make cloth to replace silk. I think it may have been the first synthetic fiber for that purpose.puma guy wrote:The Remington Nylon 66 was the first gun to utilize DuPont Zytel, which I think is probably the basis for plastic frames and those stocks show no signs of deterioration. The AR platform has been around 60 years, shows no signs of losing it's appeal and has only gained in popularity as I'm sure you know. How long they will be around is anyone's guess. My first glimpse and handling of Colt AR's in the 60's was selling them and they were not popular. I think the initial AR10 material was phenolic, later nylon. I thought they were disgustingly ugly and an insult to the aesthetics and fine art of firearms manufacturing with walnut and blued steel. My initial thoughts on plastic framed pistols was a mix of curiosity and a little doubt. Obviously my doubt was misplaced and I now own several. Though I love wood and steel I now consider the AR one of the most beautiful weapons ever created. The conformation is pleasing to my eye and the genius of the design is amazing to me. I think the pistols will be around for a long, long time; still shooting, more and more pleasing to the eye and maybe in beautiful display cases.Liberty wrote:Glock is about 35 years old. Well on its way to 50. Maybe they will never be as collectable as WWII 1911s. Colt Navy Revolvers. I also wonder about AR15s with polymer stocks.. Maybe the sheer volumes will keep their value as collectables down. What I wonder though is how durable over time they will be over time. I've seen plastic deteriorate over a period of time that has been kept inside and not subject to mechanical or environmental wear. Are the plastics used in our firearms subject to the same deterioration?cmgee67 wrote:It's really hard to say. I think my Glocks and other polymer guns will be around in 50 years. And prob still shootable
I remember how strange it seemed when the Remington Nylon 66 came out.
I like walnut and blue steel, but I wish I had bought one of them.
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Re: Plastic Guns and Accessories.
I think that polymer guns will last a lot longer than some people think. Some of the torture tests that polymer-framed handguns have been subjected to would have destroyed wood and steel guns. The Bakelite grips that are on my dad's WW2 era 1911A1 are still on the gun, and they work fine.....and I would never argue that Bakelite is a stronger material than modern polymers. There are ways that wood and steel are probably superior. Certainly aesthetics count for something. I've invested a lot in Glocks during the past year and a half, but I don't think they are particularly good looking. They are rugged and they just plain work, and so I have a lot of confidence that they will work if/when I desperately need them to. I am in my mid-60s now, and given that there are still plenty of Gen1 Glocks out there, chugging along, I would expect that my Gen3 and 4 Glocks will still be perfectly functional whenever the Good Lord sees fit to call me home. I have other, more "heirloom-like" pistols and long guns that my son and grandkids will inherit when I'm gone, so if the Glocks only last another 30-35 years (which would put me between 94 and 99 years old if I'm still alive), I'm sure they won't miss them. And if they do miss them, they can go out and buy one "just like grandpa had". I have never bought a firearm without considering if it will be (A) replaceable or (B) maintainable down the road. Sometimes the answer is 'no', but I still want the gun.
Alternatively, buy a P320, wear out the frame, and buy another frame for it for $40. Or, buy a spare frame and keep it stored in such a way that it won't degrade. Then your progeny can have a pristine P320 when you shuffle off this mortal gunbelt.
But for the most part, guns are just "things", and their primary virtue as an heirloom is to tickle the memories of the departed that go along with them. While I'm not opposed to shooting it, I rarely ever shoot my dad's old 1911 anymore. I don't need it to be a functioning firearm for it to work its magic on my memory banks. I am quite positive that a well-made polymer long gun would be at least suitable for a wall-hanger 100 years down the road...... maybe not safe to fire, but certainly safe to look at and remember. But the same could be said for a lot of wood and steel guns.
Alternatively, buy a P320, wear out the frame, and buy another frame for it for $40. Or, buy a spare frame and keep it stored in such a way that it won't degrade. Then your progeny can have a pristine P320 when you shuffle off this mortal gunbelt.
But for the most part, guns are just "things", and their primary virtue as an heirloom is to tickle the memories of the departed that go along with them. While I'm not opposed to shooting it, I rarely ever shoot my dad's old 1911 anymore. I don't need it to be a functioning firearm for it to work its magic on my memory banks. I am quite positive that a well-made polymer long gun would be at least suitable for a wall-hanger 100 years down the road...... maybe not safe to fire, but certainly safe to look at and remember. But the same could be said for a lot of wood and steel guns.
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Re: Plastic Guns and Accessories.
Sometimes I wonder. When you're my age, you do a lot of wondering
There's a lot of comparison about the need to carry, comparing it to having fire extinguishers in the home. Sometime I think, what if this was a fire extinguisher forum? Would we be comparing the old 1911 designed heavy brass fire extinguishers to the more modern steel ones? Would we be debating whether the old metal wall mounts are better than the modern polymer ones? Would we be discussing the chemical contents of the last decade's chemicals, with new chemical contents of today? Would everyone would have an opinion, and would everyone think theirs is the correct one? I think so, and there would be just as diversified opinion about those things as what we discuss here about firearms and gear.
Just wondering
There's a lot of comparison about the need to carry, comparing it to having fire extinguishers in the home. Sometime I think, what if this was a fire extinguisher forum? Would we be comparing the old 1911 designed heavy brass fire extinguishers to the more modern steel ones? Would we be debating whether the old metal wall mounts are better than the modern polymer ones? Would we be discussing the chemical contents of the last decade's chemicals, with new chemical contents of today? Would everyone would have an opinion, and would everyone think theirs is the correct one? I think so, and there would be just as diversified opinion about those things as what we discuss here about firearms and gear.
Just wondering
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Re: Plastic Guns and Accessories.
Well said, TAM. And as usual so much more eloquently than I ever could. I agree guns are mere "things". In my opinion polymer guns have, in a strange way, altered the perception of firearms, particularly their genre into "tools".The Annoyed Man wrote:I think that polymer guns will last a lot longer than some people think. Some of the torture tests that polymer-framed handguns have been subjected to would have destroyed wood and steel guns. The Bakelite grips that are on my dad's WW2 era 1911A1 are still on the gun, and they work fine.....and I would never argue that Bakelite is a stronger material than modern polymers. There are ways that wood and steel are probably superior. Certainly aesthetics count for something. I've invested a lot in Glocks during the past year and a half, but I don't think they are particularly good looking. They are rugged and they just plain work, and so I have a lot of confidence that they will work if/when I desperately need them to. I am in my mid-60s now, and given that there are still plenty of Gen1 Glocks out there, chugging along, I would expect that my Gen3 and 4 Glocks will still be perfectly functional whenever the Good Lord sees fit to call me home. I have other, more "heirloom-like" pistols and long guns that my son and grandkids will inherit when I'm gone, so if the Glocks only last another 30-35 years (which would put me between 94 and 99 years old if I'm still alive), I'm sure they won't miss them. And if they do miss them, they can go out and buy one "just like grandpa had". I have never bought a firearm without considering if it will be (A) replaceable or (B) maintainable down the road. Sometimes the answer is 'no', but I still want the gun.
Alternatively, buy a P320, wear out the frame, and buy another frame for it for $40. Or, buy a spare frame and keep it stored in such a way that it won't degrade. Then your progeny can have a pristine P320 when you shuffle off this mortal gunbelt.
But for the most part, guns are just "things", and their primary virtue as an heirloom is to tickle the memories of the departed that go along with them. While I'm not opposed to shooting it, I rarely ever shoot my dad's old 1911 anymore. I don't need it to be a functioning firearm for it to work its magic on my memory banks. I am quite positive that a well-made polymer long gun would be at least suitable for a wall-hanger 100 years down the road...... maybe not safe to fire, but certainly safe to look at and remember. But the same could be said for a lot of wood and steel guns.
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Re: Plastic Guns and Accessories.
G26ster wrote:Sometimes I wonder. When you're my age, you do a lot of wondering
There's a lot of comparison about the need to carry, comparing it to having fire extinguishers in the home. Sometime I think, what if this was a fire extinguisher forum? Would we be comparing the old 1911 designed heavy brass fire extinguishers to the more modern steel ones? Would we be debating whether the old metal wall mounts are better than the modern polymer ones? Would we be discussing the chemical contents of the last decade's chemicals, with new chemical contents of today? Would everyone would have an opinion, and would everyone think theirs is the correct one? I think so, and there would be just as diversified opinion about those things as what we discuss here about firearms and gear.
Just wondering
I agree with each new generation of technological advancement, there will always be those who want to hold on to the old, and denigrate the new. We all do it as we get older, it's easier to stay in our comfort zone. It encompasses all aspects of life, and our parents and grandparents looked at the new things we easily embraced with the same disdain, we do with the things our children embrace. And it will continue with their children, adfinitum.
I was on a survivalist board at one time, and there were the flint and steel crowd, who despised ferroceum rod folks when it came to the best fire starting tools.
Both of those are great to know how to use effectively, but in a life or death situation, I prefer a Bic lighter.
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Re: Plastic Guns and Accessories.
I look at it from a different perspective. Barrels are still made of steel. Pistol slides are generally still steel. Most AR lowers are aluminum.Liberty wrote:With steel as long as we keep them dry and oiled and don't wear it out it will last forever. It's been my experience that polymers can self-destruct over time just because of age. I don't know if this is true with the particular plastics that are used in quality guns and parts.
Many AR stocks and handguards are polymer. Those parts were wood on previous military rifles. So I don't think of it as polymer vs steel as much as polymer vs wood. Good quality wood that's well maintained can last generations. Poor quality wood is another story. Wood is also more subject to weather and humitidy extremes than polymer.
I expect plastic guns will be passed down, if we don't get more socialist administrations. I don't think they will be heirlooms, but that's an emotional quality not a practical one.
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