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I live on rural farm property. In our area any local visitor knows to pull into a driveway and beep the horn. Never get out of the car, and never ever knock on someone's door. This is because everyone is armed here, cops are miles away, etc. Tonight while sitting on my couch with my wife, a car slowed down as they passed my house, then pulled into my driveway. Out stepped a young "hip hop thug looking dude". In the car was a female driver, couldn't see anyone else (it was getting dark). The dogs almost tore through the screen, so I asked him to wait there for a moment. I went and grabbed my Glock 19 and put it in the pocket of my shorts. Told the wife to put the browning 22 in her hand and stay inside. I walked outside with gun in pocket, hand on gun. He started walking towards me from about 30 feet away, asking about land being for lease near here. I held my left hand up and told him "that's close enough" as I pulled just enough on the Glock to make sure it was not caught on the pocket, but still not visible. I think he looked at my hand in pocket and at least wondered if I had a gun. He said "don't worry I'm from _ _ _ _ _ " naming our town. At this point I genuinely felt it was a home invasion setup. The questions weren't making any sense. If you're looking for land for lease you either read the paper or call the number on a sign. I told him I don't know of anyone leasing land and hinted that he should call the number on the signs, adding that I couldn't help him. He then looked at his cell phone and stood there playing with the keypad. This really seemed odd, so I tightened my grip on the Glock. He finally turned to get back in his car and I turned to enter my front door, but kept my eye on him and the car. As I got to my door I removed the Glock from my pocket and kept it straight down just so they could get a glimpse while I opened the screen door. The female had to have seen the gun, and called out "we didn't mean you any harm". I replied "that's a good thing" and locked the door behind me. I don't consider myself to be the paranoid type. I'm easy going and level headed. I just really had this feeling that something was not right. Maybe he was totally legitimate and went away feeling like I'm prejudiced. I'd rather have his feelings hurt than have my family hurt any day. I'd like to get some comments on the self defense aspects and the legal aspects of this situation. The handgun rules seem unclear and generalized. I know can openly carry on my private property any time. In this case I felt threatened. I didn't say anything threatening or point the gun at anyone, I just removed it from my pocket as I turned to enter my front door. Comments?

Sounds like you did just fine to me and no legal infractions there!
Only thing I would suggest is that you get the license plate of the vehicle, description of the car and peeps and report it to the Sherriff. That way your story is in the record first in case the fool tries to call and get you in trouble saying something like "he held me at gunpoint while talking to me".

Ditto on the above suggestions. If something doesn't seem right, it probably isn't.

Personally, if I were on rural property of my own, I'd have holstered the handgun and proceeded out the door with a shotgun or an equally impressive long gun in hand. Approaching someone's rural homestead uninvited, unknown, and unidentified at night with a story of looking for lease property sounds like an outright lie waiting to turn into a violent crime in a heartbeat. Someone approaching me and my family in such a situation with that kind of ridiculous story should expect to be met with orders to leave and the visibly demonstrated ability to back those orders up. Keeping the gun visible and ready, but pointed in a safe direction, you are well within your rights and the law, IMO (and I am not a lawyer, for the record). Get the plates and call 911 to report suspicious person once they have left, because if they're up to no good, your neighbor may be the next target. My limited experience with suspicious people has taught me that if something seems wrong, it's probably just the tip of the iceberg and there's a lot more wrong there than you realize.

Good advice friends, and thanks for the support. This one really rattled me. I didn't remember to look at the plates, kind of had tunnel vision at the moment.

I agree, I think a visible shotgun at the ready would've been more appropriate.

Sounds like you did just fine.

If I was looking for land to lease I think I'd want to see it in daylight.

And call first!

I would have done the same in your position. People need to respect the fact that they cant just roll up on someone's front lawn and automatically expect to be greeted with a hand shake. There is a saying that goes like this "Trust everybody, but cut the cards". I'm a friendly guy, but I don't trust anyone as far as I can spit, which isn't far. I try to be polite, but taking control over the situation often requires a little force in your voice

I just really had this feeling that something was not right.

We have "feelings" for a reason and people need to pay more attention to them. In my line of work "feelings" are what keeps you alive sometimes. That and experience (which usually starts off as feelings) and then you have an "experience" that validates your gut feelings.

That old saying about the "hair standing up on your neck" is true. A good book that you might want to read is, The Gift of Fear: Survival Signals That Protect Us from Violence by Gavin De Becker.

That's a great book; it should be required reading.

JDKRIEK wrote:I would have done the same in your position. People need to respect the fact that they cant just roll up on someone's front lawn and automatically expect to be greeted with a hand shake.

I've never had any problem with it, and I've had more than one job that put me in situations of having to go door to door until I found someone who knew which completely unmarked house was the one I was trying to get to. Of course, dressing like a respectable adult helps.

I would never drive into somebodys yard in the country at night unless It was an emergency and then I would honk the horn and when they came to the door tell them what the problem was,they could then call LEO or whatever to fix the problem

Laneman wrote:Good advice friends, and thanks for the support. This one really rattled me. I didn't remember to look at the plates, kind of had tunnel vision at the moment.

It's important to report it anyway -- non-emergency, no need to call 911.

If the LEOs know about such behavior they might be able to stop the car and get a full ID, or if something bad does happen at least they will have a suspect.

I live in the city -- never lived rural -- so I would NOT have known to honk the horn, but then I would not be going up to someone's house out there unless it was an emergency and if my cell phone is working that isn't likely to be needful these days. (Glad to know about honking the horn, but really most city people don't know this.)

Sounds like you had good reasons to take as much precaution as you did, and a feeling that should not be discounted either.

Was it even necessary to "go out" deal with this? My guess is that the distances involved or something else make it necessary but here in town I am NOT going out there if I think something is hinky, or even if I just get unexpected strangers at my door -- even in the daytime.

What will the threat look like? (We don't know).

It's not about you being prejudiced or bigoted -- it's about the totallity of the circumstances. If the fellow looks like and sounds like a punk due to dress, car, speech, attitude, etc, and not because of merely skin color then likely he is a punk -- most people CHOOSE how they look to a large degree. We can choose to have polite speech and a good attitude.

A self-defense instructor I respect said, "Be polite; don't be friendly."

I live in the city -- never lived rural -- so I would NOT have known to honk the horn, but then I would not be going up to someone's house out there unless it was an emergency and if my cell phone is working that isn't likely to be needful these days. (Glad to know about honking the horn, but really most city people don't know this.)

I think you'll find most folks who live in a rural setting to be more than willing to help in an emergency. Do not be surprised however...if they are a bit "cautious" at first. Living "in the country" means that "help" is probably 30 minutes or more away. Anyone that has lived in the country for any period of time knows that their personal safety is their own responsibility.

Honking (tapping) your horn when approaching a rural residence is a time honored courtesy that serves several purposes.

1. It alerts the landowner (who may not be in the house) that someone is there.
2. It gives the landowner a chance to restrain any farm dogs that may be around before you exit the vehicle (you will appreciate this).
3. It gives the females (who are most likely to be in the house) a chance to contact a male counterpart to meet/greet/confront the visitor.

Thats pretty much the run down, just so you'll know (pass it on).

Also, leave "gates" as you found them: (if open...leave open, if closed...close it behind you).

Was it even necessary to "go out" deal with this? My guess is that the distances involved or something else make it necessary but here in town I am NOT going out there if I think something is hinky, or even if I just get unexpected strangers at my door -- even in the daytime.

Absolutely necessary (if possible). As you have alluded to, "distance" is the main factor involved. We already know that outside "help" is basically unavailable (in a time frame that will be of any benefit), so keeping any potential threat from reaching the house (stronghold) is vital. The normal scenario for approaching a rural residence should go something like this:

* Honk when you arrive (just tap the horn).
* Remain in your vehicle and watch for dogs that may or may not show themselves.
* If you exit your vehicle...stay close to it and wait to be greeted/acknowledged.
* Be patient, I may be down at my shop or tending to animals, etc...
* If the nature of your business dictates that you come to the door, knock/ring the bell and then step back several feet. When greeted...introduce yourself and state your business immediately.
* If asked to leave (or return at a later time) do so immediately and be polite about it.

All of these things will help insure that your safety and that of those living on the property is not compromised. I think you will find the average country dweller most accommodating after they have determined you are not a threat.

If all this sounds a bit paranoid/suspicious or cranky....I apologize. But, rural folks can not afford to be "wrong". Please keep this in mind when you come to visit...and we look forward to seeing you!


Out in the country,

Flint.

dukalmighty wrote:I would never drive into somebodys yard in the country at night unless It was an emergency and then I would honk the horn and when they came to the door tell them what the problem was, they could then call LEO or whatever to fix the problem

I've lived in the country for most of my life, and never cared much for the honk-and-wait approach; I'd rather have everybody out of the car, with their hands where I can see them right from the start. Inside the car, 75% or more of your body is hidden by the car itself, visibility may be further limited by headlight glare, and there's a lot more hidden space for a readily accessible weapon.

Besides, if the first thing I see when I go to check out the racket in the middle of the night is high-beams in my face, half my vision will be blocked by the vent rib and fiber optic sight. Deputies knock - even the lazy ones turn on the red and blues and use the PA.