Gutsy good guy stops bank robbery

[seamusTX]

Canton, Michigan (Detroit area): A man allegedly tried to rob a bank, claiming that he had a bomb. A customer who is a Michigan CCW holder drew a 9 mm pistol and told the robber to stop. The robber obviously did not have a plan B (nor a bomb) and was arrested.

The startled [robber] countered with, "but, I have a bomb" -- but Fawzi wasn't impressed. "I don't care. You are not robbing this bank!" was the reply from the other side of the gun.

- Jim

[israel67]

Canton, Michigan (Detroit area): A man allegedly tried to rob a bank, claiming that he had a bomb. A customer who is a Michigan CCW holder drew a 9 mm pistol and told the robber to stop. The robber obviously did not have a plan B (nor a bomb) and was arrested.

The startled [robber] countered with, "but, I have a bomb" -- but Fawzi wasn't impressed. "I don't care. You are not robbing this bank!" was the reply from the other side of the gun.

I saw that on XD talk, and was amazed at the number of people who criticised the CHL for intervening! Is it really a case of 'I'm all right, Jack!' or 'don't get involved' everywhere??

[seamusTX]

There's always a conflict between minding one's own business and intervening. I think it's legitimate to ask why, if the bank won't hire armed guards to protect its assets, a customer should provide the service for free.

Obviously, in this case, it went well. I wonder if the bank will reward Mr. Fawzi.

- Jim

[israel67]

There's always a conflict between minding one's own business and intervening. I think it's legitimate to ask why, if the bank won't hire armed guards to protect its assets, a customer should provide the service for free.

Obviously, in this case, it went well. I wonder if the bank will reward Mr. Fawzi.

One would hope so. But I wouldn't necessarily do it for the company, but for the poor dude who's got a sawn-off shotgun shoved in his face.

As a child, I had a handgun pointed at me. Maybe it was a real one, maybe it was 'just' an airgun. I'll never know for sure. But the sight of the muzzle a foot from my face, will never leave me. And as an adult, if I see some scuz shoving a gun in a guy's face simply because the latter has the tough luck to be earning an honest crust by working ... you can bet your last dollar that if I can do something, I'm going to do it.

[HerbM]

Also note this guy was claiming a BOMB.

This means that either it is likely very much a WORSE idea to intervene or very much more important and urgent to do so.

If the guys hands are both showing and empty -- he needs to be subdued fully or shot in the head.

If he's got a legitimate looking "detonator" in his hand with his finger on the button and it is pressed DOWN, then maybe it's a good time to "run for your life" (or slide away.)

If his finger isn't even on the button, then he REALLY needs to be shot in the head now.

You mileage may vary but the principle is that we must evaluate the threat now and ALSO where the threat is likely to be going in the future.

And we had better be right, or at least right enough.

[agbullet2k1]

There's always a conflict between minding one's own business and intervening. I think it's legitimate to ask why, if the bank won't hire armed guards to protect its assets, a customer should provide the service for free.

Obviously, in this case, it went well. I wonder if the bank will reward Mr. Fawzi.

- Jim

I doubt it, unless there's public outcry. My wife's branch got robbed a couple years ago. The tellers managed to sneak in an ink pack, so they were caught later, but the most compensation the employees got was free pizza while the police took statements (took a silent alarm an 10 calls before they showed up 3 hours later). Of course that could just be that particular company. If anything, I bet they'll say that the man endangered everyone there, and they'll put up a sign soon. If they guy did nothing, the robber gets away and becomes another statistic. Everyone forgets it by tomorrow. By stopping the guy, it's not national news, with the bank in a prominent spotlight. To a bank, there really is no good publicity, other than mailers.

Of course I now have my tiny wife armed more than most LEOs, and the branch manager pays her better for it.

If he's got a legitimate looking "detonator" in his hand with his finger on the button and it is pressed DOWN, then maybe it's a good time to "run for your life" (or slide away.)

Yeah, the best you can hope for against a real bomb is a tie.

[seamusTX]

As I pointed out elsewhere, the number of robbers in the U.S. who actually have a functioning bomb is close to zero. We can only assume that Mr. Fawzi read the situation correctly, or else was very lucky.

- Jim

[israel67]

Also note this guy was claiming a BOMB.

This means that either it is likely very much a WORSE idea to intervene or very much more important and urgent to do so.

If the guys hands are both showing and empty -- he needs to be subdued fully or shot in the head.

If he's got a legitimate looking "detonator" in his hand with his finger on the button and it is pressed DOWN, then maybe it's a good time to "run for your life" (or slide away.)

If his finger isn't even on the button, then he REALLY needs to be shot in the head now.

You mileage may vary but the principle is that we must evaluate the threat now and ALSO where the threat is likely to be going in the future.

And we had better be right, or at least right enough.

I personally wouldn't react for a reward. I'd do it because some lowlife is committing a violent crime in my presence, and putting an innocent person in fear of death or serious injury.

I believe that this is what y'all call a 'no-brainer', yes ?

[seamusTX]

It's almost never a "no brainer."

In this case, as Herb pointed out, if the robber actually had a bomb and was willing to blow himself up, he could have taken several innocent people with him.

In cases where an assailant has a firearm, shooting him creates a risk that he will survive long enough to return fire, shoot a third party, or discharge the weapon reflexively and strike whatever the muzzle is pointing at -- which may be the intended robbery victim.

Also, the consequences don't end when the assailant is incapacitated. Texas law is pretty clear about this kind of situation, but some other states are not. Some still have a duty to retreat, or prohibit the use of deadly force to protect property, or allow injured criminals or their survivors to sue.

- Jim

[israel67]

Dude's just been interviewed on Fox News ...

[israel67]

In this case, as Herb pointed out, if the robber actually had a bomb and was willing to blow himself up, he could have taken several innocent people with him.

How many bank robbers really have bombs on them?

If they know how to make a bomb, then why not plant it somewhere and call the cops and demand a million dollars or they'll blow it up? Much less risk than walking into a bank with the thing on your person and risk dying along with the people inside.

[HerbM]

In this case, as Herb pointed out, if the robber actually had a bomb and was willing to blow himself up, he could have taken several innocent people with him.

How many bank robbers really have bombs on them?

If they know how to make a bomb, then why not plant it somewhere and call the cops and demand a million dollars or they'll blow it up? Much less risk than walking into a bank with the thing on your person and risk dying along with the people inside.

General principle: If a violent criminal SAYS he has a bomb you treat him as if he has it.

Isolate him, get away from him, neutralize him, comply until you can improve the situation. Do NOT allow the situation to deteriorate further.

[seamusTX]

How many bank robbers really have bombs on them?

If they know how to make a bomb, then why not plant it somewhere and call the cops and demand a million dollars or they'll blow it up?

As I said earlier, I don't know of any robbers using actual bombs. However, there are enough lunatics and idiots in the world that a suicide bomber robber must be considered a risk.

- Jim

[AEA]

Here's a Fox News Video interview with the Guy that stopped it.

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.h ... index.html