In the thick....

[LedJedi]

The knockdown thread got me thinking about this, but I didn't want to jack the thread so I figured I'd start a new one.

I've been in a few "tight spots" in my short life thus far. Had a gun pulled on me, had to draw down on someone else (thank god/dess nobody got shot, especially me!) and been in misc. other potentially life or death or otherwise extremely serious situations. i wonder if others who have been in extremely stressful circumstances might like to share notes. I'm not as interested in the particular events as I am in the sensations and state of mind during. I've experienced two distinct and opposite states during such crisis in myself.

The first I'm not all that proud of, but i suppose I chalk it up to being green and young. I froze at a time when someone needed me. My feet were literally cemented to the floor. I weighed the options at hand and could think of none that did not put me in considerable harm's way with no advantage to either side in the conflict so I could find no clear course of action. I could not make a decision because there was not a good one to make so my mind simply locked and I froze. Now to this day I think about that situation and even after 9+ years I'm not sure if there was a "right" thing to do in that situation. Thankfully nobody was hurt, but the fact that I froze stuck with me. A part of me has always been a bit ashamed of that, but i learned lessons from it and doubt it would happen again under similar circumstances. I think the key thing in that situation was that it was a clear and obvious stalemate since there was no good clear course of action.

The other 4-5 times I've been in a tight spot I've noticed a few particular things. Time seems to slow down, dramatically. I remember a guy taking a swing at me and as I stepped back it was like his fist was moving through jello, like it would never get there and i had all the time in the world to react. An instinctual part of me kicked in and without really much thought at all i was able to gain the advantage in the situation. It was simply automatic and reminds me a lot of how a little roach can scamper away when it feels the air shifting from a fly swatter before it's brain has even processed what was going on.

Both times guns were involved in can distinctly remember getting a highly focused tunnel vision. When it was me as the target all i could see, the only thing that existed in the universe was that gun. It was like I was seeing it through 50x binoculars from 10 ft away. Again time slowed down and it felt like I had all the time in the world to react. Within .0000001ths of a second I had assessed that the only thing to do in the situation that did not end with me being shot was to comply, especially since i was an idiot and unwittingly trespassing at the time and did not want to put my hands on the guy for that reason. Thankfully talked my way out of that situation pretty quickly and then managed to drive straight home so I could change my shorts.

In other various forms of crisis I've noticed this deliberate shift in the speed of time. I've even taken the time to process a thought or two during the moment at how much the world slowed down. I remember looking at a desk fan and being able to actually discern the individual blades in the fan while they turned. In those situations as well there was a clear and definite course of action to follow and I did it almost automatically and ... well for the most part effortlessly. In one particular instance I remember sliding about 300-400lbs of solid steel benches resting on concrete about 10 yards with one hand (no way i could normally do that) and in another I caught a rock in mid-air that had been surprisingly accurately thrown by a neighborhood brat at my little sisters head. I just snatched it out of mid air like it was lazily sailing through the air. At the time it didn't hurt at all, but within about 20 minutes my hand had doubled in size from swelling and i could barely use it for the next week.

Now the strength stuff sounds like classic adrenaline spike to me and being that I'm far from an arrow-snatching-out-of-mid-air ninja I do wonder if others have experienced similar sensations like a slowing down of time, a sudden focusing and clarity of what must be done. I remember reading some of the history of on the founder of Aikido, O Sensei, where he described being under fire in one of the world wars. He said time slowed down and the bullets appeared to him as slowly moving balls of light sailing through the air that he had all the time in the world to avoid. It also reminds me a lot of that famous scene in the Matrix where Neo can see the bullets lazily sailing through the air. In fact, the first time I saw that scene I instantly thought... wow, yeah, that's what it's like.

I guess my point is... have you guys had similar experiences? If so, please share. I'm very interested in comparing notes.

[The Annoyed Man]

I've been threatened once with a gun by someone who was in a car next to mine, and I was shot at once by someone who did not know I was there, but that's it for me and gun play. I can offer two things though...

One is that the sensation of time slowing down is not restricted to moments of gun peril only. The first time I crashed a motorcycle, it took about a week to actually hit the ground. At least it seemed that long. So I would say that your experience was probably fairly common.

The other thing is something that my father told me he learned in OCS in the Marine Corps. He said they taught him that making a bad decision in combat was less dangerous than making no decision at all. The thinking was that you can recover from a bad decision in combat, and yes, maybe someone will get killed; but no decision means that you just sit there paralyzed, and everybody dies. Fortunately for me, I've never had to test that theory in combat, but it makes a certain amount of sense, and it has always stayed with me. I've tried to live my life according to that principle ever since.

[BigBlueDodge]

I think what you are looking for is found in the "Never Again" forum, where people discuss real life situations they have encountered.

[longtooth]

Correct BBD.

[nuparadigm]

... I guess my point is... have you guys had similar experiences? If so, please share. I'm very interested in comparing notes.

Yes. Tachypsychia is a common phenomenon. Every armed encounter I've been in (with shots fired by me/at me) have had this feature to them.

[LedJedi]

see, i didn't even know there was a name for it... Learn something new every day.

[Rokyudai]

I have had situations working in the ER and in a psych ward dealing with mentally ill and chemically dependent adolescents and adults for over 6 years that resulted in similar sensations as you describe, especially when dealing with calculating individuals as opposed to truly ill people.

I found more often than not, when someone(s) would erupt, a strange serenity would come over me. I used to call it auto pilot (which later during MA training it was called Mushin) where I would find myself saying and doing things in a manner like I was watching from a 3rd person point of view. Not to be corny and not comparing combat to my life situations, but if you have ever saw Braveheart or Gladiator, when the director decides to cover up the sound of war with music, it was like that. Just blocked out all the unnecessary/nonessential stimulus like screaming, swearing, verbal/physical threats, let chairs fly by and just plain went to work. I found also that the louder they got, the lower volume my voice became, the faster they spoke, the slower I did. The more intense they became, the more simple my requests became. I suppose to some extent time became irrelevant.

-Rok

[LedJedi]

I have had situations working in the ER and in a psych ward dealing with mentally ill and chemically dependent adolescents and adults for over 6 years that resulted in similar sensations as you describe, especially when dealing with calculating individuals as opposed to truly ill people.

I found more often than not, when someone(s) would erupt, a strange serenity would come over me. I used to call it auto pilot (which later during MA training it was called Mushin) where I would find myself saying and doing things in a manner like I was watching from a 3rd person point of view. Not to be corny and not comparing combat to my life situations, but if you have ever saw Braveheart or Gladiator, when the director decides to cover up the sound of war with music, it was like that. Just blocked out all the unnecessary/nonessential stimulus like screaming, swearing, verbal/physical threats, let chairs fly by and just plain went to work. I found also that the louder they got, the lower volume my voice became, the faster they spoke, the slower I did. The more intense they became, the more simple my requests became. I suppose to some extent time became irrelevant.

-Rok

very well put. i wasn't sure anyone would get the reference to mushin so I didn't include it but yeah, that's essentially it. The state of no mind where you simply react.

[Mr.Scott]

Well I think if you have had more than one life threatening situation in your "young life" that you are either associating with the wrong people or are possibly egging things on towards a confrontation.

I'm only 30 and have had one threat against my life, and that was at work when someone tried robbing us.

If you find yourself in situations that you need your gun, you better be sure you need to use it. If you pull a gun on someone and don't shoot them you can get busted for that, and if you don't use it, you give the other person the chance to use force or a deadly weapon against you to counter your use. You may be a little to quick on the draw. You need to be aware of your surrounding at all times, and if a situation occurs, you should really learn to disengage or diffuse the situation before pulling a firearm.
I am in no way a social person. I hate talking to groups of people and even strangers, but when it comes to my safety I can be a talkative guy, just to diffuse a problem before it has a chance of starting. Like if at a gas station and someone approaches you about borrowing change ect, step towards them and start the talking before they can. That puts you in an advantageous possistion as you've thrown them off their game plan and now they are on the defensive.

[Rokyudai]

Mr Scott,

With respect to the original poster, you seem to be jumping the gun yourself in painting him with a broad stroke. In fact, I don't believe he is looking for a lecture on where and when to avoid situations. This is a thread comparing the phenomena that many individuals have or may have experienced during a situation of high stress.

If you review his post, you will see that he is not necessarily looking for a review of how he did, rather, have others had similar experiences...




Rok

[LedJedi]

Well I think if you have had more than one life threatening situation in your "young life" that you are either associating with the wrong people or are possibly egging things on towards a confrontation.

I'm only 30 and have had one threat against my life, and that was at work when someone tried robbing us.

If you find yourself in situations that you need your gun, you better be sure you need to use it. If you pull a gun on someone and don't shoot them you can get busted for that, and if you don't use it, you give the other person the chance to use force or a deadly weapon against you to counter your use. You may be a little to quick on the draw. You need to be aware of your surrounding at all times, and if a situation occurs, you should really learn to disengage or diffuse the situation before pulling a firearm.
I am in no way a social person. I hate talking to groups of people and even strangers, but when it comes to my safety I can be a talkative guy, just to diffuse a problem before it has a chance of starting. Like if at a gas station and someone approaches you about borrowing change ect, step towards them and start the talking before they can. That puts you in an advantageous possistion as you've thrown them off their game plan and now they are on the defensive.

Mr. Scott,

Thank you for your assessment, but as Rokyudai pointed out above, that wasn't really intended to be the topic.

However, to answer your question or really address your topic, two of the incidents happened when i was a minor. One at the age of probably 8-10 with a neighborhood bully and the other at about 17. I would say that the only one I actually even remotely provoked was being drawn down on while i was trespassing (unaware of the fact at the time) and to which I quickly backed out of.

The other incidents described were in an official capacity as an officer of the state of Texas. I assure you, I did not provoke those situations. There is entirely too much paperwork involved with a use of force as a government agent. The last thing you want to do is stay late after a long shift filling out paperwork. Unfortunately, in a job like that no matter how hard you try to de-escalate a situation if the other guy really wants a fight you don't have much choice but to react.

I agree though, that in civilian life, especially as a CHL, you had already better be justified in shooting before you break concealment. And in general if you're aware of your surroundings you can avoid most trouble before it finds you.

The original post was really talking more about the experience of time dilation during a crisis as well as the sort of automatic responses that can occur. It doesn't necessarily have to be a life/death conflict though to provoke something like that. I can remember getting in a LOT of trouble with mom over an accident when I was a kid (I broke a very pricey xmas present) and distinctly remember the same sort of sensations when it first happened. Of course, at the time I probably THOUGHT i was gonna die, cause mom was none-too-happy with me at the time. LOL

for the record, i'm 30 years old exactly so obviously... your mileage may vary :)

[Excaliber]

have you guys had similar experiences?

Lots of folks have had similar experiences to yours, and there are other common ones as well. They're sometimes grouped under the term "Body Alarm Reactions." A quick list of the better recognized ones is:

1. Auditory exclusion - not hearing sounds like gunfire, or hearing them as muted
2. Intensified sound - sounds that are normally barely audible being heard as if they are much louder
3. Tunnel vision - the experience of seeing only the central part of your vision as if you were looking through the cardboard tube from a roll of paper towels
4. Autopilot - acting without conscious thought
5. Visual clarity - unusually sharp focus and definition of some part of a traumatic event - a muzzle flash, a bullet in flight, or some small detail of an event scene
6. Slow motion time - the sensation that things that are happening very quickly are happening very slowly
7. Temporary paralysis - the sensation of being "frozen" or unable to move
8. Dissociation - a sense of detachment, of being outside the body, or being "in a dream"
9. Memory loss - having no memory of small parts or even significant chunks of traumatic events
10. Memory distortions - seeing as very real something that didn't actually happen
11. Intrusive thoughts - distracting, bizarre, or emotionally charged thoughts that arise suddenly during stressful situations

If you're interested in getting an overview of the cutting edge thinking in this area, I would very highly recommend the book "On Combat - the Psychology and Physiology of Deadly Conflict in War and Peace" by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman and Loren Christensen. It's fast paced and fascinating reading, and contains lots of anecdotes of what real people experienced in life and death situations.

[dihappy]

I loved reading your post!

Have you ever seen the movie "Unbreakable"?

[MAFWG]

1. Auditory exclusion - not hearing sounds like gunfire, or hearing them as muted
2. Intensified sound - sounds that are normally barely audible being heard as if they are much louder
3. Tunnel vision - the experience of seeing only the central part of your vision as if you were looking through the cardboard tube from a roll of paper towels
4. Autopilot - acting without conscious thought
5. Visual clarity - unusually sharp focus and definition of some part of a traumatic event - a muzzle flash, a bullet in flight, or some small detail of an event scene
6. Slow motion time - the sensation that things that are happening very quickly are happening very slowly
7. Temporary paralysis - the sensation of being "frozen" or unable to move
8. Dissociation - a sense of detachment, of being outside the body, or being "in a dream"
9. Memory loss - having no memory of small parts or even significant chunks of traumatic events
10. Memory distortions - seeing as very real something that didn't actually happen
11. Intrusive thoughts - distracting, bizarre, or emotionally charged thoughts that arise suddenly during stressful situations

I find these descriptions of the subjective experiences people go through in high stress situations fascinating. I have never had a gun pointed at me by someone with ill intent. However, I have experienced some of the phenomena listed above. During college I was a very high level ping pong player and when I was playing at my peak it would seem like the ball was in slow motion (#6 above) and that it was the only thing I could see (#3, tunnel vision). I would also seldom notice anything happening around me (#1, auditory exclusion). A few times I got the "floating above my body" sensation (#8, dissociation) and those times were when I played my best.

In the baseball movie "For Love of the Game," Kevin Costner's character deliberately induces auditory exclusion to prevent distractions while pitching. Given my experiences with ping pong, I wonder if part of what makes a sports giant like Michael Jordan or Michael Schumacher so much better than the rest of us ordinary mortals is to some extent based on an ability to achieve some of these physical/mental states at will.

Hunter

[Excaliber]

I wonder if part of what makes a sports giant like Michael Jordan or Michael Schumacher so much better than the rest of us ordinary mortals is to some extent based on an ability to achieve some of these physical/mental states at will.

That may be - I'm afraid I can't help you there, but I'd be interested in the answer if you find one.

In a self defense situation, the surprise onset of these phenomena can inhibit performance when it is needed most.

There are techniques one can consciously use to prevent or reduce these effects. The book "On Combat" covers some of these, and there are other good resources out there as well. They can be applied to other situations too, and are well worth learning.