Dangerous Road Rage Situation, WWYD?

[boba]

We don't have the whole story but it sounds like there were a few opportunities to evade/escape.

[Bob in Big D]

Welcome to the forum coob5!
As you may have guessed by now escaping a roadrage incident is the best if you can do it safely.It is never a good idea to wave a gun around, especially while driving to scare the BG.
But lets say the BG cuts you off and forces you to the side of the road and jumps out of his car and starts toward your car. What do you do then? You may want to go thru some of the posts on the forum about road rage. Lots of good info here that may someday keep you out of jail with money to buy toys instaed of lawyers.

[Dragonfighter]

If avoidance was not practical then:

Sec. 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.

[Gyrogearhead]

One thing I might suggest in one of these situations is to call 911 on your cell phone as soon as it starts. Keep the operator on the line and relay the licence plate number of the BG's car and street names as you pass them. Tell the operator you are in fear for your life and ask for assistance way before the bg has a chance to do real harm. If it does escalate to physical confrontation then you have a running record of your "correct" actions and your on-the-spot description of the bg's action.

Outside of telling you where the nearest police station is located the operator is not going to be any help so If you need both hands to manouver then put the cell phone on the dash so the operator can hear you as things progress. When this sort of thing is in progress it is more important that the police have a clear understanding of the situation they may have to clean up afterward and you have an iron-clad recorded version of things as you saw them from your point of view. You should be explaining your efforts to disengage as the events unwind and the bg's response as though you were the Eye-Witness News announcer. Don't worry about the gun until it's time to use it. If you do this you'll have the best witness in the world on your side, one that no one can refute.

Just my opinion.

Gerry

[Oldgringo]

Now, where i draw a blank is this: what happens when someone is attacking you with their vehicle? it is most certainly considered a deadly weapon, i wonder how the courts would view this situation had you fired on him and injured/killed the driver.

if anyone has a precedent they can reference, im all ears.

You don't have a choice in that situation. You either evade or shoot the driver (preferably in that order). The hard part is convincing a Grand Jury (or further up the legal food-chain) that you were truly in fear for your life.

There it is.

[C-dub]

The first thought that came to my mind was that in the initial contact the OP might have had a chance to diffuse the entire incident. Maybe, just maybe, if he had apologized profusely and explained that he did not see the other guy because he did not have any lights on the whole thing might have been avoided. However, if that didn't work and it continued as written then what everyone else said goes.

[OldCurlyWolf]

The first thought that came to my mind was that in the initial contact the OP might have had a chance to diffuse the entire incident. Maybe, just maybe, if he had apologized profusely and explained that he did not see the other guy because he did not have any lights on the whole thing might have been avoided. However, if that didn't work and it continued as written then what everyone else said goes.

IF the original description was accurate, that was not an option.

[VMI77]

You're lucky he didn't call 9/11 and accuse you of threatening him with a gun. The initial presumption would have been in his favor and you might well have found yourself charged or on trial trying to defend why HE called 9/11 and you didn't, if HE was the aggressor.

[The Hop Walla]

^^This^^

[ddurkof]

I turned off of a dark street onto another, and pulled in front of a tanned Tahoe, whose headlights were off. The vehicle thought i intentionally cut him off and sped up. The gentleman honked his horn, even though it was his fault I didn't see him. He then pulled up next to me and started yelling, flipping me off, and throwing his hands around. This was not my first time to encounter this as I think we all have seen this behavior before. I brushed it off and kept driving.

This guy is being that aggressive and you "brushed it off?" Not real smart to ignore this much of a danger sign.

The driver switched lanes in front of me and slowed down, then started to pull to the right as if he was going to turn or pull over into the bike lane/shoulder. Instead of passing him in the right lane I moved to the left in order to give myself more distance. He then swerved his vehicle at mine and attempted to side swipe me, and he was pointing his finger at me as if it was a firearm and motioned that he was shooting. Not knowing what he was doing I reached into my glove box and explained to my friend that I was going to draw my sidearm. I had my Kel-tec pf9 in a holster and pointed the gun at the filing of my car and not at th driver. My intention was to let him know that I was armed but I didn't feel that I should point at the driver. I sped up to flee away however he came up beside me again and swerved at me a second time, This time I held my gun up and waived it, still not pointing it at him, hoping that he would see it this time, he continued to mimick firing a gun at me with his hands, until he either saw that I was holding a gun or decided to wise up.
He turned off to another street.

I apologized to my friend for having to see that and assured him that I did not want do that and I had never had to before. I genuinely felt threatened and as I said I tried to avoid confrontation. I was driving a 4 door sedan and the Tahoe or surbuban was probably twice the size mine. I felt that my safety was at risk and that the driver of the other vehicle crossed the fine line of Road Rage to Assault, when he tried to side swipe me. Was I right to draw my gun? What would you all have done?

He passes you and then gets in front of you, why not make a turn? As soon as he was in front of you, evade the situation by making a left or right turn. IF at that time he turns around to follow up, he has escalated the situation to the point that you should be on the cell phone to 911. He is pursuing you at that point in time and has much less of a defense that he is the innocent party.

Don't follow trouble, most of the time you will catch up with it.

[SlowDave]

Okay, original poster, I agree with the majority that you should have de-escalated by just turning off that road or making a u-turn. Nice thing is, he's in front of you and you have space to maneuver. Getting next to him put you in a much more vulnerable position. (Realizing that you thought you were just passing him as he was turning right. But in hindsight, would be better to just wait a few car lengths back to see what he does.)

Responder to 2nd road rage guy: my reading is, you're driving down the road minding your own business, a car comes by yelling at you for who knows what and speeds ahead. Sounds like it's over but next thing you know his bumper is coming at you and you are stuck behind him with folks getting out of the car and high risk of backing up. Part I didn't get is if you almost hit him, how did you put it in first and go forward? I'm assuming you didn't ram his car. Did you back up enough so that you could get out from behind him? To me, that guy sounds like he did about everything he could.

Other important learning from that, you got out of it without anyone being shot but feel that with a CHL and a gun, it might have ended differently. I don't like to think that because I have a firearm, someone's going to get shot who otherwise wouldn't have, with either case ending with no innocents hurt. Makes me think even more about not using it unless I must. Be ready, but hope not to use it.

[drjoker]

If you were blackwater & this was iraq, then the other driver would be a lead bag already. I think you showed much restraint given the adrenaline rush. Be sure to call the cops next time. Of course hindsight is 20/20. Thanks for sharing & welcome aboard.

[captainsafety]

Personally, I would never display my firearm as a deterrent. Only if I feel that my life is in danger would I do such a thing. Glad it all turned out well for you, though.

[Bear67]

Turn and leave--tactical retreat. No harm, no foul, no blood or legalities to clean up. +1

[LSUTiger]

next time wait until he shoots you then you can shoot back. the laws regarding displaying a weapon are stupid and so is thinking you if you pull a gun you must use it.

I agree with what the others have said in this case but I still think there are situations where you have to make your self ready for what is about to happen if your situational awareness allows you to (to wait until youre dead is not very practicle), and someone might see the gun. Especially if walking down a street or similiar situation. If you get caught off guard and your weapon is out of reach for some reason you might have to decide if you have a chance to retrieve it or not. Or risk getting killed, etc. etc.

Every situation is different and a different set of circumstances will dictate whats right, wrong, lawful, unlawful, or is the just plain common sense thing to do (each thing doesnt necessarily have anything to do with the other). You will have very little time to decide. As the old cliche goes, better judged by 12 than carried by 6. Not that I want anyone me included to do anything blatenly stupid but the law sometimes throws common sense/practicality out the window putting the good guy at risk. I would learn from this but dont get the idea that you need to wait until bullets are entering your body to respond, as some would have you believe. That will just make you dead.