Robbery in Nuevo Laredo, WWYD

[DEB]

Hopefully this will come out and I am not breaking a rule by posting it here. Mods please do your thing if I am wrong here.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/XwQx0CtdJbw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This happened in Nuevo Laredo, August 18 and was posted both on YouTube and on Borderland beat. No killings or blood, just an armed robbery. It shows several families sitting down to eat at a Pizzarea, when two men enter, kind of lackadaisical, no hurry, and rob everyone. Would you act? If so when? What could you do, both legally and morally, and how? Remember this is Nuevo Laredo, killings are a daily occurrence. This could also be coming to any major city, especially in the Southwest, as the violence could spread. Kind of like a training video, except it is real life. I believe it is good to just get the juices going on the, "how to's".

[Teamless]

When the 2 robbers come in, 1 of them goes off screen and you can't (from this video) determine where he is at to be able to decide if you would have enough time with him and the shotgun assailant watching to be able to draw.

That being said, as all of the patrons were put on the floor, if you had the opportunity to draw, it would seem there was a safe firing lane to the robbers without hitting the patrons.

So, if I assume I had a safe firing lane, and I had the time to draw without being compromised, would I shoot? From what I saw, yes. I would.
Now, would I really, if I were in that situation? Well it is easy to armchair quarterback it, but I hope I would.

[knljr]

I love how the patron reaction...kinda like, "Oh hell, here we go again..."

By the way - here's the other angle you can't see in your video. I wish I knew spanish. :)

I don't know if I would have done anything to the fat guy while the other guy was in the back (and it sounds like a round goes off in the back shortly after he climbs the counter) - there would have been several opportunties to put a few rounds in that guy but then once the other perp hears the gunshots he's gonna come out guns a blazin' and that's not going to be good. Not only that, he'd be irritated and probably would just start shooting up the place...

http://www.youtube.com/embed/XwQx0CtdJbw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[paulhailes]

It's to bad we couldn't shoot as soon as they came in and displayed the shotgun, seeing as it's obvious what they were about to do.

[Jumping Frog]

I didn't watch the video, but I have already thought through how I want to address a situation where I am facing an armed attacker who got the drop on me.

I am not going to be passive and place my well-being on wishes that the bad guy is going to be humane or logical. Why should I entrust my life to someone with obviously bad intentions?

No, I'll draw and fight. I'd rather go down fighting giving it everything I've got than go out as a passive "victim".

Plus, I've seen the studies that show action beats reaction every time. I'm sure the LEO's on here have seen the training videos where a BG on the floor on their stomach can often still draw and fire faster than a person covering them can react.

I am also not deluding myself that real life is some TV show or videogame. If I have to get into a gunfight, I may very well get shot. If getting shot is the price I have to pay to save my life, then so be it.

[philip964]

Guns are illegal in Mexico, so only criminals have guns in Mexico. Spread the word.

[Mike1951]

I wouldn't be in Nuevo Laredo!

[J.R.@A&M]

WWID? I would not cross the Rio Grande, especially to NL or Juarez. I wouldn't even go to N. Progreso like I frequently used to for lunch and a $3 haircut.e

[Oldgringo]

philip964 wrote:
Guns are illegal in Mexico, so only criminals have guns in Mexico. Spread the word.

WWID? I would not cross the Rio Grande, especially to NL or Juarez. I wouldn't even go to N. Progreso like I frequently used to for lunch and a $3 haircut.e

I was wondering who would be first with these two responses. Give both of these gentlemen a cigar, Bill.

[ddurkof]

You can tell that they were not worried about anyone being armed in the restaurant.

The problem with any take over robbery is that you don't know who all the players are or what they are going to do. Some robbers will have someone in the establishment who looks like a victim, but is in cahoots with them. Before you take any action, be sure to watch your 6 o'clock and assume that everyone, but you, is in on it. It is a 360 degree danger zone, don't get tunnel vision.

[DEB]

I posted this, not concerning Mexico so much, but with what has happened recently such as what occurred in Nevada. Individuals sitting down, eating, talking and bad guys enter. This is just one of the few videos that I have seen that enabled me to watch someone enter, display weapons, and then make their play. If someone entered, uncovered a shotgun, when could or should one act? Milliseconds count, and usually one is not alone eating out. I believe part of the training should be one's family members/significant other that would be present. This includes get down on the ground if you see me make any kind of move to my weapon or? Also, get a seat where you can watch the entrance and maybe also provide you with some surreptitious cover, so you can react without being observed. I was trained that the best time to act is at the very beginning of an action/ambush as the foe is not concentrated on just one individual and has no idea of what to expect. If one waits then it will be you against them. Laws come into play as well, this isn't a combat zone where mistakes could be forgiven. How about more tactical responses, Who, What, When, Where, Why. I and my wife ate at a BBQ place today after watching this video and as I was eating I was formulating a possible response.

[Oldgringo]

I posted this, not concerning Mexico so much, but with what has happened recently such as what occurred in Nevada. Individuals sitting down, eating, talking and bad guys enter. This is just one of the few videos that I have seen that enabled me to watch someone enter, display weapons, and then make their play. If someone entered, uncovered a shotgun, when could or should one act? Milliseconds count, and usually one is not alone eating out. I believe part of the training should be one's family members/significant other that would be present. This includes get down on the ground if you see me make any kind of move to my weapon or? Also, get a seat where you can watch the entrance and maybe also provide you with some surreptitious cover, so you can react without being observed. I was trained that the best time to act is at the very beginning of an action/ambush as the foe is not concentrated on just one individual and has no idea of what to expect. If one waits then it will be you against them. Laws come into play as well, this isn't a combat zone where mistakes could be forgiven. How about more tactical responses, Who, What, When, Where, Why. I and my wife ate at a BBQ place today after watching this video and as I was eating I was formulating a possible response.

huh?

[DEB]

I posted this, not concerning Mexico so much, but with what has happened recently such as what occurred in Nevada. Individuals sitting down, eating, talking and bad guys enter. This is just one of the few videos that I have seen that enabled me to watch someone enter, display weapons, and then make their play. If someone entered, uncovered a shotgun, when could or should one act? Milliseconds count, and usually one is not alone eating out. I believe part of the training should be one's family members/significant other that would be present. This includes get down on the ground if you see me make any kind of move to my weapon or? Also, get a seat where you can watch the entrance and maybe also provide you with some surreptitious cover, so you can react without being observed. I was trained that the best time to act is at the very beginning of an action/ambush as the foe is not concentrated on just one individual and has no idea of what to expect. If one waits then it will be you against them. Laws come into play as well, this isn't a combat zone where mistakes could be forgiven. How about more tactical responses, Who, What, When, Where, Why. I and my wife ate at a BBQ place today after watching this video and as I was eating I was formulating a possible response.

huh?

Sorry guess I ended it kind of abruptly. LOL. What I was trying to convey is to work on the scenario even as I and my wife were out eating this afternoon, I was playing out possible scenarios of what could occur, kind of like a personal training time. Where would be a good place to sit where I could watch most activity without being immediately watched by anyone entering, what could be my response if someone entered and began some sort of activity such as what played out on the video and etc. As far as the rest of my comment, I am just seeking what others might do. Also, what legal ramifications could exist. Just attempting to expand my knowledge.

[ddurkof]

Way too many variables to say absolutely when to engage in a gun battle. As soon as you see the gun? Maybe, but then what if at the old BBQ you see the guy walk into the BBQ and pull out the shotgun BAM, BAM.

BBQ owner comes out of the back, "Why did you shoot Bill? That shotgun was a prop to go on the wall!"

OOPS!

You have to take the totality of the situation into consideration. Be alert, not paranoid.

Crooks are there for the money as fast as they can. Are they gathering up people to move to a cooler? Then you have a bigger problem. Are you the only man? Do you look like a threat to them?

Go watch a bunch of robbery videos and just watch the actions of the robbers as see where the thugs make their mistakes. That is where you make a move, if needed.

It takes a lot of practice and even then it will not go as planned.

I saw many times that the guy on camera could have been taken out, he was not paying attention at many times, BUT the other guy was out of the camera so I can't say that at the times the bad guy on the monitor was vulnerable, he was really vulnerable. It would be two (of them) against one of you, or does your wife carry? Is she willing to kill someone without warning? Does she practice? Do you practice?

Many questions, no absolute answers.

[RPB]

You can tell that they were not worried about anyone being armed in the restaurant.

The problem with any take over robbery is that you don't know who all the players are or what they are going to do. Some robbers will have someone in the establishment who looks like a victim, but is in cahoots with them. Before you take any action, be sure to watch your 6 o'clock and assume that everyone, but you, is in on it. It is a 360 degree danger zone, don't get tunnel vision.

I agree not from opinion, as in "yeah that sounds good" but from experiencing 2 robberies, once with 2 guys (I saw the second as I was about to disarm the first, and decided not to), another with 5 armed guys (I honestly never saw all of them, couldn't have told you there were just 2, 3, 4 or 5 ... the police caught all 5 a couple blocks away after they left the store).

Last week at supper I took my niece out to eat, and explained why I sit where I sit in a restaurant, and also why I'm going to sit facing the door and needed to sit where she was parked