Had to(?) show my G19 ... I think ...

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Had to(?) show my G19 ... I think ...

Postby Scott in Houston » Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:34 am

Not too long ago, (3 weeks?) I was very close to my home. I haven't posted about this because I was waiting to see if anything came of it and I didn't want anything online. I think I'm ok to share now. Curious of your thoughts.

On the way to my house, the main road merges from 3 into 2 lanes. The left lane merges into the center. I always take the center lane and just after the merge, I turn left into my neighborhood. My house is only a few homes in.

One night, I notice a tow truck FLYING up that left lane from way behind me. I noticed the high speed, but even with his speed, I didn't think he could get anywhere near me ... I didn't think he could get close to even with me and definitely not in front of me. Well, he thought otherwise. He got to my rear quarter panel but then was forced to merge behind me.
Again, it was such a long shot, that I didn't think much about him or that he would be mad. (I've seen plenty of people who want to 'race' to the merge, and I always let them win. I'm turning just after it and it's not worth it obviously.)
Because this guy was in such a hurry, I decided to not make my turn. I went another block before making my left so that he would have time to settle behind me before I had to brake.

Well, when I got to the break in the median to turn left, I turned and then he pulls up, slams his brakes, and immediately gets out of his truck! He comes raging towards my car swearing and waving his arms. No weapon. I noticed that he had a lady in his truck sitting shotgun. She looked dumbfounded.

He got right up to my window. I couldn't drive off because of oncoming traffic in the road ahead and his truck had me pinned. He's yelling at me to get out (yeah right!) and is calling me names in Spanish that I've never heard, but I'm pretty sure weren't nice. I was pretty scared and glad there was no weapon, but dialed 911. He saw me use my phone and then got very amped up. He hit my window hard! It didn't break, but it sounded like it may. I tried to do the "I'm sorry wave" a few times but he wasn't taking that.
So, I then showed him my Glock 19. I didn't point at him. Just showed that I had it. I'm not sure if that was a good move or not, but it worked this time. He kept yelling but backed off immediately and got in his truck. I was finally able to leave so I did! I didn't go right home either and told the 911 lady what had happened.
She asked if I needed a LEO, and I declined since he was long gone.

I could not get his plate number or even the tow company because of where he parked relative to me, and when I could leave he was directly behind me. I didn't have any interest in turning around. I just wanted out of there.

In hind sight, showing my gun may have been a bad idea. It could have escalated to the next level, but I was pretty darn scared and I thought he'd have physical access to me if my window were to break.
I really wish that I could have gotten his info, but no regrets because getting away trumped all.
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Re: Had to(?) show my G19 ... I think ...

Postby gigag04 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:39 am

As someone who would respond to such a call, I wouldn't look at any charges. ESP since he didn't wait around.

No victim. No offense.

Sounds fine to me.
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Re: Had to(?) show my G19 ... I think ...

Postby Keith B » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:07 am

At the point he hit the glass, that was an attempt to enter your vehicle, so you would have been justified to use force to stop him. And, IMO you had every right to do this at that point:

TPC Sec. 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE.
The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.


So, it basically goes back to the fact you were on with 911, were telling them what was happening, and they had a recording of it, so they were aware. The tow truck driver quickly realized he was in the wrong and was not going to call in on you, even though you showed your gun. So as gigag04 says, no victim, no offense. :thumbs2:
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Re: Had to(?) show my G19 ... I think ...

Postby Scott in Houston » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:46 pm

Thanks to both of you. I was sure that I was legal, but not sure if it was necessarily wise.
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Re: Had to(?) show my G19 ... I think ...

Postby RSJ » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:02 pm

Reminds me of the "first" CHL involved homicide charge
"Of the concealed carry licensees who have been arrested for a murder, several have been no-billed by grand juries that determined the killings were lawful. Gordon Hale III was the first Texas licensee to kill an assailant using his concealed firearm - and the first licensee arrested. Hale had been involved in a minor noninjury traffic accident that turned into an assault when the other driver, Kenny Tavai, punched Hale repeatedly in the face and then attempted to drag him out of his car through the window. Hale fired his weapon in response, killing Tavai. The Dallas district attorney's office charged Hale with murder for using what it considered excessive force in defending against Tavai. The grand jury believed that Hale justifiably feared for his life and refused to indict him"
Credit: http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba324/
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Re: Had to(?) show my G19 ... I think ...

Postby Scott in Houston » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:36 pm

Yikes... that gives me chills thinking of what could have happened... If he had broken the glass, there's a very good chance I would have had to shoot depending on his next action afterwards... I'm guessing once he breaks the glass, odds are, he wouldn't have stopped there. Giving thanks for how it ended vs. how it could have ended.
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Re: Had to(?) show my G19 ... I think ...

Postby jocat54 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:36 pm

I think you handled it just fine....and glad it worked out for you. Great you had 911 on the phone.

I'm thinking when he started hitting the window the gun would have been POINTED at him though.
Last edited by jocat54 on Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Had to(?) show my G19 ... I think ...

Postby Scott in Houston » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:33 pm

jocat54 wrote:I think you handles it just fine....and glad it worked out for you. Great you had 911 on the phone.

I'm thinking when he started hitting the window the gun would have been POINTED at him though.


Yeah... it's interesting you say that. I think you're probably right, but wow... was it hard to point it at someone. It's sooooo ingrained in my head to never point at someone that even when it was a potential threat, it was tough. Now had the glass broken... I think it would have been much different!

The main thing was letting him know... "get away from me or else".
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Re: Had to(?) show my G19 ... I think ...

Postby tomtexan » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:38 pm

Seems like you handled it very well considering the situation you were faced with.
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Re: Had to(?) show my G19 ... I think ...

Postby Jumping Frog » Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:54 am

I agree your actions were appropriate.

For other people -- especially newbies -- who may end up reading this thread, I have also seen multiple cases where the display of a handgun in a road rage situation resulted in being charged and convicted. The key differentiators in your case are threefold:

  1. You were boxed in and had no other way to escape. This is key.
  2. Hitting your window makes it unlawfully attempting with force to enter your vehicle, thereby helping to justify deadly force.
  3. Dialing 911. The legal system is set up to assume two roles in the drama: victim complainant and perpetrator. Better to establish one's status as the victim complainant.
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Re: Had to(?) show my G19 ... I think ...

Postby BKRushing » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:58 am

Scott in Houston wrote:Not too long ago, (3 weeks?) I was very close to my home. I haven't posted about this because I was waiting to see if anything came of it and I didn't want anything online. I think I'm ok to share now. Curious of your thoughts.

On the way to my house, the main road merges from 3 into 2 lanes. The left lane merges into the center. I always take the center lane and just after the merge, I turn left into my neighborhood. My house is only a few homes in.

One night, I notice a tow truck FLYING up that left lane from way behind me. I noticed the high speed, but even with his speed, I didn't think he could get anywhere near me ... I didn't think he could get close to even with me and definitely not in front of me. Well, he thought otherwise. He got to my rear quarter panel but then was forced to merge behind me.
Again, it was such a long shot, that I didn't think much about him or that he would be mad. (I've seen plenty of people who want to 'race' to the merge, and I always let them win. I'm turning just after it and it's not worth it obviously.)
Because this guy was in such a hurry, I decided to not make my turn. I went another block before making my left so that he would have time to settle behind me before I had to brake.

Well, when I got to the break in the median to turn left, I turned and then he pulls up, slams his brakes, and immediately gets out of his truck! He comes raging towards my car swearing and waving his arms. No weapon. I noticed that he had a lady in his truck sitting shotgun. She looked dumbfounded.

He got right up to my window. I couldn't drive off because of oncoming traffic in the road ahead and his truck had me pinned. He's yelling at me to get out (yeah right!) and is calling me names in Spanish that I've never heard, but I'm pretty sure weren't nice. I was pretty scared and glad there was no weapon, but dialed 911. He saw me use my phone and then got very amped up. He hit my window hard! It didn't break, but it sounded like it may. I tried to do the "I'm sorry wave" a few times but he wasn't taking that.
So, I then showed him my Glock 19. I didn't point at him. Just showed that I had it. I'm not sure if that was a good move or not, but it worked this time. He kept yelling but backed off immediately and got in his truck. I was finally able to leave so I did! I didn't go right home either and told the 911 lady what had happened.
She asked if I needed a LEO, and I declined since he was long gone.

I could not get his plate number or even the tow company because of where he parked relative to me, and when I could leave he was directly behind me. I didn't have any interest in turning around. I just wanted out of there.

In hind sight, showing my gun may have been a bad idea. It could have escalated to the next level, but I was pretty darn scared and I thought he'd have physical access to me if my window were to break.
I really wish that I could have gotten his info, but no regrets because getting away trumped all.


Scott,

This sounds eerily similar to an incident that happened to me about a little while ago. I was cut off a couple of times in a bad section of Houston by a guy that appeared to try to force me to rear end him so he could sue me for insurance. And I didn't make any gestures or say anything so as not to provoke him. When we stopped at a traffic light he jumped out of his truck and charged my car and tried to reach into my open window before I displayed my firearm. I was hoping it wouldn't come to that, but I got a wife and a 2 year old at home and was not about to take any chances once he made it clear he was going to make an issue of this. Fortunately, nothing happened and he got back into his truck and that was the last of it.
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Re: Had to(?) show my G19 ... I think ...

Postby Scott in Houston » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:08 am

BKRushing wrote:Scott,

This sounds eerily similar to an incident that happened to me about a little while ago. I was cut off a couple of times in a bad section of Houston by a guy that appeared to try to force me to rear end him so he could sue me for insurance. And I didn't make any gestures or say anything so as not to provoke him. When we stopped at a traffic light he jumped out of his truck and charged my car and tried to reach into my open window before I displayed my firearm. I was hoping it wouldn't come to that, but I got a wife and a 2 year old at home and was not about to take any chances once he made it clear he was going to make an issue of this. Fortunately, nothing happened and he got back into his truck and that was the last of it.


Crazies out there!!! Was he in a tow truck? If so, there's a reasonable chance it was the same guy. My guy was short, stocky, and Hispanic. (Is that capitalized since it's not a nationality but a race?? /tangent)

I was in a nice area of town in west Houston not far from BW8 & I-10... however, as we all know, the area of town doesn't mean a much in terms of issues with bad and/or crazy people.

Did you point your firearm or just display? I showed the profile of mine to let him know the next step is going up a level if he continues. I was hesitant to point right at him quite yet, and I was also somewhat worried that displaying it would cause him to display one too and/or shoot at me. With him on foot and me in my death-trap of a car, I don't like that scenario at all... can't 'move off the X'. Anyway, it worked out. I'm glad yours did too!
Just think, both of us may have been seriously injured or worse had we not been able to carry. How many more of these types of events happen each day?
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Re: Had to(?) show my G19 ... I think ...

Postby 74novaman » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:17 am

An incident like this prompted me to get my CHL. Similar situation, but in College Station. Was on a service road that narrowed from 2 lanes to 1. Apparently a guy in a big King Ranch F-150 thought I cut him off in my little Pontiac :roll: . He floors it around me on the shoulder and brakes HARD in front of my car, blocking my escape. Gets out, comes over and tries to open my car door. When that doesn't work, he hits the window and screams at me to get out of the car. I yelled back "no!" and he gave up, got back in his truck and drove off.

It was an enlightening experience. I'm not a small guy, over 6' tall but this guy was bigger than me and mad as heck. I'm just glad my car locks the doors when you put it in drive, or I might have had a pretty rough day.
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Re: Had to(?) show my G19 ... I think ...

Postby Scott in Houston » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:36 am

74novaman wrote:An incident like this prompted me to get my CHL. Similar situation, but in College Station. Was on a service road that narrowed from 2 lanes to 1. Apparently a guy in a big King Ranch F-150 thought I cut him off in my little Pontiac :roll: . He floors it around me on the shoulder and brakes HARD in front of my car, blocking my escape. Gets out, comes over and tries to open my car door. When that doesn't work, he hits the window and screams at me to get out of the car. I yelled back "no!" and he gave up, got back in his truck and drove off.

It was an enlightening experience. I'm not a small guy, over 6' tall but this guy was bigger than me and mad as heck. I'm just glad my car locks the doors when you put it in drive, or I might have had a pretty rough day.



That was you!?!? I'm truly sorry. I didn't know or I would have stayed in my truck.



Seriously though... freakin' scary. I honestly believe while traveling in my car is statistically the most likely place I'd ever have to use my CCW to defend myself. Sort of like saying, "you're more likely to die on the way to the airport than on the flight itself," the same can be said about driving to a bad neighborhood... "you're more likely to die on the way there than while there."
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Re: Had to(?) show my G19 ... I think ...

Postby 74novaman » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:41 am

Scott in Houston wrote:That was you!?!? I'm truly sorry. I didn't know or I would have stayed in my truck.


"rlol"

Reading through your original post, I'd agree with the others that you did well. You didn't show the gun until he punched the window, and it stopped his aggressive behavior. Well done. :cool:
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