Thoughts on the validity of the Sandy Hook shooting

[Ericstac]

^^ I'm not one of those tinfoil hat types of people and I use laughter to hide my pain and sorrow and would never think twice about someone doing the same.. BUT, I would never clear myself of the laughter and put myself back into mourning mode before speaking. That is what is just not right.. He was obviously coaching his body back to a sad dad before he did his speech and that makes him look fake.

[Moby]

Why is it that when ever a terrible thing happens that is so obviously an evil act some (speaking of the video) always attempt to tie it to some givernmental plan to control the people, global domination, one world order, or something else stupid.

For gosh sakes a nut job killed a bunch of kids. As much as i am anti government the NSA, CIA, or any other black ops group
could not control someone to the point of doing something so evil. If they could they would be in total control of all of us.

This sounds like something from info wars and the Alex Jones idiot.

[The Annoyed Man]

The shooting itself happened, more or less as reported (accounting for journalistic errors). But everything immediately following stinks like rotten fish.

Diane Feinstein's bill was not cobbled together in response to the shooting. By her own admission, she had been working on it for over a year. She was just waiting for the right tragedy to happen to spring it on us.

The laughing parent, who it turns out is some kind of actor....

The insistence on the use of a "Bushmaster," when one of the news channels—CBS I think, but I could be wrong about that—finally, just a few days ago, admitted that the long gun that was involved was actually in the trunk of the shooter's car (I refuse to name that monster by name). On the video showing it being removed, any fool can see that it isn't even an AR pattern rifle. It looks to me more like a Saiga of some sort. Within DAYS of JFK's assassination, we had pictures in the press of Oswald's rifle, and this was before the modern "information age." (I am not one who subscribes to the multiple shooter theory. I've been to the 6th floor museum and looked out the window. I could have made those shots with a well functioning bolt rifle. The distance was only 60 yards to where the fatal head shot was delivered.) WHERE IS THE ALLEGED BUSHMASTER RIFLE? The shooting happened on December 14, 2012. Here we are almost a month and a half later. Has anybody seen a picture of the shooter's ACTUAL "Bushmaster rifle?" I haven't. HOW COME, IN THE FULL COURT PRESS TO BAN MODERN SPORTING RIFLES, THE ADMINISTRATION HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO PROCURE A PICTURE OF THE SHOOTER'S ACTUAL "BUSHMASTER RIFLE"? They haven't, because they can't.

Eyewitnesses, on scene at the school, repeatedly describe the shooter as having either 2 or 4 handguns. Not one has mentioned him carrying a long gun.

The ME claims that he removed several .223 bullets from the bodies of the 7 children on whom he personally performed autopsies. Those bullets would have been fired within the confines of a classroom—point blank for an AR15. I have personally helped to treat hundreds of gunshot patients. Even a .22 LR will often go right through an adult, unless it hits bone. How is it that a rifle, firing a projectile weighing 50%-100% more than a .22 LR bullet (we don't know the bullet weight, but it has to be in that range), traveling at 3X the velocity of a .22 LR bullet, did not go all the way through and through the body of a 6 or 7 year old child? I'm not buying that he found .223 bullets inside those poor children's bodies. And by the way, how is it that a medical examiner in a sleepy Connecticut county and a bedroom community can claim to be the most experienced gunshot wound expert in the country? (In the video he asserts that nobody knows more about gunshot wound dynamics than he does.)

So no, I have no problem accepting that this monster stole his mother's guns, even a long gun, using at least one of them to murder her. I have no problem believing that he drove to Sandy Hook Elementary School. I have no problem believing that he forced his way into the school, or that he shot down 20 children and 6 adults in cold blood.....or psychotic rage....take your pick. I have no problem believing that he killed himself when he heard the approaching sirens.

What I have a very hard time swallowing is everything after that. It is just TOO orchestrated. TOO MUCH information that is convenient to the AWB crowd is published, and TOO LITTLE information (show me THE RIFLE) that is NOT convenient to them has been suppressed.

I am NOT a conspiracy nut. I don't believe in a JFK conspiracy, and have posted that before. I don't believe in a 9/11 "inside job" conspiracy. I don't believe that there are preserved bodies of aliens held at Area 51. But the aftermath of this Sandy Hook shooting stinks to high heaven.

[VMI77]

The shooting itself happened, more or less as reported (accounting for journalistic errors). But everything immediately following stinks like rotten fish.

Diane Feinstein's bill was not cobbled together in response to the shooting. By her own admission, she had been working on it for over a year. She was just waiting for the right tragedy to happen to spring it on us.

The laughing parent, who it turns out is some kind of actor....

The insistence on the use of a "Bushmaster," when one of the news channels—CBS I think, but I could be wrong about that—finally, just a few days ago, admitted that the long gun that was involved was actually in the trunk of the shooter's car (I refuse to name that monster by name). On the video showing it being removed, any fool can see that it isn't even an AR pattern rifle. It looks to me more like a Saiga of some sort. Within DAYS of JFK's assassination, we had pictures in the press of Oswald's rifle, and this was before the modern "information age." (I am not one who subscribes to the multiple shooter theory. I've been to the 6th floor museum and looked out the window. I could have made those shots with a well functioning bolt rifle. The distance was only 60 yards to where the fatal head shot was delivered.) WHERE IS THE ALLEGED BUSHMASTER RIFLE? The shooting happened on December 14, 2012. Here we are almost a month and a half later. Has anybody seen a picture of the shooter's ACTUAL "Bushmaster rifle?" I haven't. HOW COME, IN THE FULL COURT PRESS TO BAN MODERN SPORTING RIFLES, THE ADMINISTRATION HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO PROCURE A PICTURE OF THE SHOOTER'S ACTUAL "BUSHMASTER RIFLE"? They haven't, because they can't.

Eyewitnesses, on scene at the school, repeatedly describe the shooter as having either 2 or 4 handguns. Not one has mentioned him carrying a long gun.

The ME claims that he removed several .223 bullets from the bodies of the 7 children on whom he personally performed autopsies. Those bullets would have been fired within the confines of a classroom—point blank for an AR15. I have personally helped to treat hundreds of gunshot patients. Even a .22 LR will often go right through an adult, unless it hits bone. How is it that a rifle, firing a projectile weighing 50%-100% more than a .22 LR bullet (we don't know the bullet weight, but it has to be in that range), traveling at 3X the velocity of a .22 LR bullet, did not go all the way through and through the body of a 6 or 7 year old child? I'm not buying that he found .223 bullets inside those poor children's bodies. And by the way, how is it that a medical examiner in a sleepy Connecticut county and a bedroom community can claim to be the most experienced gunshot wound expert in the country? (In the video he asserts that nobody knows more about gunshot wound dynamics than he does.)

So no, I have no problem accepting that this monster stole his mother's guns, even a long gun, using at least one of them to murder her. I have no problem believing that he drove to Sandy Hook Elementary School. I have no problem believing that he forced his way into the school, or that he shot down 20 children and 6 adults in cold blood.....or psychotic rage....take your pick. I have no problem believing that he killed himself when he heard the approaching sirens.

What I have a very hard time swallowing is everything after that. It is just TOO orchestrated. TOO MUCH information that is convenient to the AWB crowd is published, and TOO LITTLE information (show me THE RIFLE) that is NOT convenient to them has been suppressed.

I am NOT a conspiracy nut. I don't believe in a JFK conspiracy, and have posted that before. I don't believe in a 9/11 "inside job" conspiracy. I don't believe that there are preserved bodies of aliens held at Area 51. But the aftermath of this Sandy Hook shooting stinks to high heaven.

I agree, and from the start I've found it hard to believe that officers on the scene couldn't tell the difference between rifle casings and handguns casings. Your comments here have given me an idea: perhaps we haven't seen a photo of the rifle because it's something like an S&W MP 15/22, and the rounds expended were 22 LR?

[K.Mooneyham]

The shooting itself happened, more or less as reported (accounting for journalistic errors). But everything immediately following stinks like rotten fish.

Diane Feinstein's bill was not cobbled together in response to the shooting. By her own admission, she had been working on it for over a year. She was just waiting for the right tragedy to happen to spring it on us.

The laughing parent, who it turns out is some kind of actor....

The insistence on the use of a "Bushmaster," when one of the news channels—CBS I think, but I could be wrong about that—finally, just a few days ago, admitted that the long gun that was involved was actually in the trunk of the shooter's car (I refuse to name that monster by name). On the video showing it being removed, any fool can see that it isn't even an AR pattern rifle. It looks to me more like a Saiga of some sort. Within DAYS of JFK's assassination, we had pictures in the press of Oswald's rifle, and this was before the modern "information age." (I am not one who subscribes to the multiple shooter theory. I've been to the 6th floor museum and looked out the window. I could have made those shots with a well functioning bolt rifle. The distance was only 60 yards to where the fatal head shot was delivered.) WHERE IS THE ALLEGED BUSHMASTER RIFLE? The shooting happened on December 14, 2012. Here we are almost a month and a half later. Has anybody seen a picture of the shooter's ACTUAL "Bushmaster rifle?" I haven't. HOW COME, IN THE FULL COURT PRESS TO BAN MODERN SPORTING RIFLES, THE ADMINISTRATION HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO PROCURE A PICTURE OF THE SHOOTER'S ACTUAL "BUSHMASTER RIFLE"? They haven't, because they can't.

Eyewitnesses, on scene at the school, repeatedly describe the shooter as having either 2 or 4 handguns. Not one has mentioned him carrying a long gun.

The ME claims that he removed several .223 bullets from the bodies of the 7 children on whom he personally performed autopsies. Those bullets would have been fired within the confines of a classroom—point blank for an AR15. I have personally helped to treat hundreds of gunshot patients. Even a .22 LR will often go right through an adult, unless it hits bone. How is it that a rifle, firing a projectile weighing 50%-100% more than a .22 LR bullet (we don't know the bullet weight, but it has to be in that range), traveling at 3X the velocity of a .22 LR bullet, did not go all the way through and through the body of a 6 or 7 year old child? I'm not buying that he found .223 bullets inside those poor children's bodies. And by the way, how is it that a medical examiner in a sleepy Connecticut county and a bedroom community can claim to be the most experienced gunshot wound expert in the country? (In the video he asserts that nobody knows more about gunshot wound dynamics than he does.)

So no, I have no problem accepting that this monster stole his mother's guns, even a long gun, using at least one of them to murder her. I have no problem believing that he drove to Sandy Hook Elementary School. I have no problem believing that he forced his way into the school, or that he shot down 20 children and 6 adults in cold blood.....or psychotic rage....take your pick. I have no problem believing that he killed himself when he heard the approaching sirens.

What I have a very hard time swallowing is everything after that. It is just TOO orchestrated. TOO MUCH information that is convenient to the AWB crowd is published, and TOO LITTLE information (show me THE RIFLE) that is NOT convenient to them has been suppressed.

I am NOT a conspiracy nut. I don't believe in a JFK conspiracy, and have posted that before. I don't believe in a 9/11 "inside job" conspiracy. I don't believe that there are preserved bodies of aliens held at Area 51. But the aftermath of this Sandy Hook shooting stinks to high heaven.

I'm just about 100% with TAM on this. I have zero problems with knowing that a seriously disturbed and evil young man went to that school and shot a lot of little kids and teachers. What I do have problems with is all the mess that has surrounded this whole thing. Now, I have no experience with gunshot wounds whatsoever...but as someone who reads a LOT of non-fiction military history books with first-hand accounts from combat soldiers, I was left wondering as to why there weren't more wounded versus those who were killed. In a war, where the people are TRAINED to shoot others, there are ALWAYS wounded (minus things like direct artillery strikes, etc). I'm sorry, I sincerely don't want to seem like a "know-it-all" and I promise I don't want to make light of any of the tragedy suffered by so many, but too many things just don't add up for me. And even if all of my misunderstanding is due to a lack of knowledge on my part, there is no denying the media manipulation of this for the gain of the anti-2A types.

[anygunanywhere]

Nothing this administration does surprises me. Nothing.

Anygunanywhere

[Redneck_Buddha]

Nothing this administration does surprises me. Nothing.

Anygunanywhere

If they will do Fast and Furious to stoke Anti 2A sentiment, then I also believe they will stop at nothing. Never has there been an administration so aggressive in forcing through such a broad-sweeping agenda of "social-justice". These people are getting their template straight from the Weather Underground and Saul Alinsky.

[Keith B]

I was left wondering as to why there weren't more wounded versus those who were killed.

Don't know for sure, but my guess is close quarters and small children for the most part. Well placed shots at bascially point blank range to vital areas. And while they may not have been initially fatal, in these situations the response time to get EMS personel in to help the wounded is delayed until they are sure the scene is secure and safe, so there is more time for them to bleed out.

[terryg]

^^ I'm not one of those tinfoil hat types of people and I use laughter to hide my pain and sorrow and would never think twice about someone doing the same.. BUT, I would never clear myself of the laughter and put myself back into mourning mode before speaking. That is what is just not right.. He was obviously coaching his body back to a sad dad before he did his speech and that makes him look fake.

With all due respect, unless you have been in his shoes, you cannot possibly know what you might or might not do just to survive the next minute and the make it through the next task in front of you.

My interpretation of his actions is, through it all, he was (and still is) merely surviving. He was running on just about zero sleep - and what little bits of rest may have come to him via sheer exhaustion - were peppered with horror.

He prepared his statement earlier by doing only what was in front of him to do.
He showered and got dressed by doing only what was in front of him to do.
He came out into the throng of reporters by doing only what was in front of him to do.

The moment when he was to begin speaking, he was not putting himself back into to "mourning mode". He was doing only what was in front of him to do, which at that moment. was to begin to think about the words he had prepared earlier. The "mourning mode" you describe was an immense battle to maintain composure as the rush of unclassifiable emotions swamped every fiber of his being.

This excessive judging of what someone is or isn't, should or should not be doing after suffering the loss of a child is horrific and really needs to stop.

The laughing parent, who it turns out is some kind of actor....

TAM, you know I have the highest respect for you. And I cannot comment on all of the other details that you are questioning about the incident. But I have not seen one credible shred of evidence that any of the parents depicted are anything other human beings suffering the worst possible trauma a parent can face.

[anygunanywhere]

Why aren't all of the relatives of the innocent victims screaming for the truth out of the government and media? Why is there no information??

There is a coverup going on here.

What happened to the freedom of the press?

Oh, wait, they are complicit in the coverup.

Anygunanywhere

[Dragonfighter]

<SNIP>
I take it you've seen the interview referred to? It's bizarre, not because of the joking and smiling, but because his change in emotions is so obviously forced.

I can remember many funerals I've been to, laughing and back slapping as friends and long lost cousins come around, and bawling my eyes out a second later when my attention turns back to the shell in the casket. I don't pretend to speak for anyone remotely related to Sandy Hook but I'd say there is plenty else to hang my tin foil hat on than the changing/masking of emotions in a parent during interviews.

[Ericstac]

Where did he get the "bushmaster" saiga?

Seems a bit odd his mom had a saiga semi auto shotgun.. Not the typical buy for anyone, let alone an older lady.

[Ericstac]

http://www.ct.gov/despp/cwp/view.asp?Q=517284&A=4226" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



STATE OF CONNECTICUT
Department of Emergency Services &
Public Protection
Connecticut State Police
Public Information Office
1111 Country Club Road
Middletown, Connecticut 06457

Contact:
860-685-8230
DESPP.Feedback
Reuben Bradford
Commissioner Colonel Danny R. Stebbins
Deputy Commissioner
Division of State Police
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
January 18, 2013


** UPDATE **

STATE POLICE IDENTIFY WEAPONS USED IN SANDY HOOK INVESTIGATION;
INVESTIGATION CONTINUES

In previous press conferences, the Connecticut State Police clearly identified all of the weapons seized from the crime scene at Sandy Hook Elementary School.

To eliminate any confusion or misinformation, we will again describe and identify the weapons seized at the school crime scene.

Seized inside the school:
#1. Bushmaster .223 caliber-- model XM15-E2S rifle with high capacity 30 round magazine
#2. Glock 10 mm handgun
#3. Sig-Sauer P226 9mm handgun


Seized from suspect’s car in parking lot:
#4. Izhmash Canta-12 12 gauge Shotgun (seized from car in parking lot)




So back to my question, mom had a bushy, glock, sig AND an Izzy??? Yeah right. Where did he get them guns.

[bauer]

I for one do believe that this tragedy did occur as reported... a disturbed young man stole his mother's weapons, killed her, proceeded to the school, killed 26 people, and then killed himself. All that is believable and for the most part backed by evidence that has been made public. The part I don't buy into is the whole, it was done by an AR-15. As stated earlier, witnesses accounts state he had 2-4 handguns, not one do you see say he had a Bushmaster AR. The video footage of the police pulling a weapon from the trunk definitely looks like some sort of shotgun not an AR platform. The ME claiming he pulled numerous .223 rounds from the child victims is flat out unbelievable. I've seen what a 5.56 round does to an adult human on several occasion and all of those were at 25+ yards. This all happened at essentially point blank range. A .223 round would have gone straight through the kids there would have been nothing to pull out it would have been a through and through. The adults maybe (if it hit a bone), the kids no.

Feinstein is a tool, plain and simple. There is no doubt she had her proposed AWB drawn up and awaiting an event such as this. Its sad but true. She knew it wouldn't pass until there was a call for action from the public in the face of a tragedy.

The ban that Feinstein is proposing is essentially the 1994 AWB put in place by Clinton with some revamped language to eliminate loop holes. If she knew a damn thing about weapons she would understand that the 1994 AWB and her new proposed ban do not center around the lethality of a weapon but simply the looks. God I wish liberals would grow a brain.

[PUCKER]

I have questions about the events, little things that stick out, or are unanswered.

Did Adam Lanza even have a driver's license?? I remember reading an article (Daily Mail, I think?) where it mentioned that Adam's mother had worked hard to get him one. I wonder if he was capable of having one? So, any folks with law enforcement connections in the Northeast that can access the public records (or not so public records) and pull his info to see if he had a driver's license?

I say all this as my wife used to work with folks (all adults, at least by age) that were special needs and I've met a few of the clients. It was a mix of MHMR across the clients. Suffice it to say that NONE of them drove, had a license, etc. The high-functioning clients lived in group homes with the rare exception of one or two living on their own in an apartment, yet no driving. I know that you cannot paint all special needs folks with a wide brush after having met just a few...but I'm curious about the driving angle.

OK, so now, what about the car?? The Honda Civic from the scene that is supposedly Lanza's...reports I've seen show it as being registered to a Chris Rodia. It just seems fishy. I'm not a "conspiracy nutjob" (I'm just a nutjob )...but I smell something rotten...and it's not me, I just bathed.