Had to use my 45. Hope this never happens again.

So that others may learn.

Moderators: carlson1, Charles L. Cotton, Keith B

Had to use my 45. Hope this never happens again.

Postby LedJedi » Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:46 am

I'm still shaking a bit as I sit down to write this. I’ve learned from past experiences it’s best to write down what you remember as soon after it happens as possible, because memory tends to fade, especially traumatic events.

A longtime buddy of mine (Trey) was with me as we were walking through the mall near my house this weekend. We were trying to get some early X-mas shopping knocked out and I was eyeballing the frozen yogurt place in the food court. It was later in the evening and they were about to roll up the sidewalk in the place so we tried to put a hustle on it.

We get a snack and I start looking around for the nearest bookstore. We start walking that direction and I spot it. About that time I spotted 4 very thuggish looking guys that looked to be in their early to mid 20’s. They looked like they were all fresh out of prison. Trust me. I know the look. My first thought was, “ok, time to get off their radar� and I told Trey I wanted to head into the bookstore quick. They were walking toward us, but seemed to be minding their own business.

He gave me this look like, “I'm not going in there� so we had a few friendly words back and forth. He got a little agitated. I guess bookstores aren’t as cool as they used to be. It could have been that I was going in for the latest Harry Potter.

He sort of quickly spun around as if to stomp into the store under protest and promptly spun into one of the four guys, sending the guy reeling backwards, almost on his butt. I started thinking that was a nasty little hit he gave the guy and it might come off looking better if I come down on my buddy hard before they have a chance to, so I started giving Trey some lip about being clumsy and watching where he’s going and looked over and apologized to the guys for him and physically pulled Trey into the bookstore before they could really get their bearings and start a confrontation.

We settle at the back of the store and I look around. The guys are still up there just outside the store but they seem to be minding their own business so I turn my attention back to the book. I find a copy and start thumbing through it. Trey grabs a magazine and we’re both facing the back wall. After what seemed like a few seconds I got the feeling someone was standing behind me. I turned around and there’s the guy Trey crashed into standing behind him and I see of all things in his hand a bright orange training gun.

I'm just sort of in shock a bit thinking to myself, “what in the world is this guy doing and why is he carrying around a training gun?� About that time he reaches up behind Trey who’s oblivious and puts the gun to his head and yells BANG!

I’m thinking, “What in the world? Is this guy for real?�. Trey jumped about 12 feet in the air and pretty much came unglued. Trey reached back to clock the guy. I can’t say that I blame him at all, but I knew his buddies were probably close and I didn’t want a 4 on 2 situation. I had just enough time to reach out and hold him back from swinging at him. The dude put the little orange gun in his pocket and laughed and said something. I really don’t remember what. He laughed and started to walk back up to the front of the store.

I told my buddy it just wasn’t worth it and we should probably just get the heck out of there. We gave them a few minutes to clear out and headed back out of the store to make a bee line for the car. As we walked up to the front register they were all still up there and were apparently laughing about the little prank.

One of the guys kept saying (I take in a joking manner) “ you need to go back there and shoot that dude for real. Don’t let him do that to you.�

About the time I heard that the guy who was talking locked eyes with me and out of 100% reflex my right hand reached up to pat my 45 to make sure it was still there. He looked down and saw my hand and you could see the panic creep across his face. He yelled. “oh (deleted)! He’s got a gun! Shoot that (deleted!)�

At about that moment time started slowing way down. I could see the panicked look on his face and went to hold my hands up in front of me and tell him to just be cool. Both him and one of his other buddies started going for their waistline and lifting up their shirts.

I remember thinking at that point, “oh Lord, I'm gonna have to shoot this guy.� And that since they were already going for theirs I didn’t have much of a choice. I remember saying “no, it’s ok!� and holding my left hand out and reaching under my shirt to pop the retaining strap on my holster. They were both still reaching for theirs for what seemed like forever. My eyes were glued on their hands.

I wrapped my hand around the handle of the 45 and gave it a quick tug. It didn’t come free. I gave it a much harder tug and it was stuck. At that point I remember thinking, “oh lord, they’re gonna gun us both down and I can’t even get mine out of the holster.�

The panicked guy seemed to be having a hard time finding his piece, but the other guy already had his in his hand and was starting to move out of my line of site toward the wall of the bookstore. He looked like he might be retreating or going for cover. The other two guys were booking it out of the line of sight.

I gave one last really HARD tug on my gun and felt it break free. I brought it up and stepped back into the weaver stance and started looking for the front sight picture. I tried to put my finger on the trigger after it was lined up and my finger wouldn’t go in. I quickly changed my focus and realized that the gun had come up with the holster still on it. I remember thinking, “I'm a dead man, there’s no way he doesn’t have his out yet.�

As quick as I could I flicked the retaining strap that was still closed (apparently when I flicked it earlier it didn’t undo) and reached up to quickly toss off the holster without changing the alignment of the gun. When I changed focus back to the guys I saw the one panicked guy was finally getting his out and bringing it up. Time was still going in extreme slow motion.

Just for a moment I remember thinking, “Man, this really sucks. This could have been avoided but I can’t really take a moment to back down. If I do he’s going to have the upper hand. I'm pretty much committed at this point. I'm actually going to have to shoot this guy.� Lawyers, court and jail time flashed in my mind momentarily.

I took a quick glance behind him and didn’t see anyone and squeezed off a double tap. I swear it was like those bullet scenes in the Matrix. You could see the rounds cutting through the air. The first shot was a little to the right, but the second landed a little high but square in the chest. I popped one more mid mass and turned to look at where his friend who was reaching for his waistband and running went.

I remember thinking at that point, “man, we’re gonna have a mall shoot-out. He’s got cover and I don’t. I need to get behind the counter and yell out that I'm not going to shoot him unless he …�

About that time I snapped my eyes open in a cold sweat. I was visibly shaking. I don’t think I’ve ever had a nightmare that vivid in my life.

Sorry if I shook you up. I figured it wouldn’t come across with the right emotional impact if you knew it was just a dream from the beginning. I really am still shaking from that scenario though. Scared me senseless.

Lessons learned from this encounter?

Remove the retaining strap on my holster and call to find out when my NEW holster from Sparks will be shipped.

Review my plan of action on such encounters. I should have instinctually moved for cover before doing anything else. The situation could have possibly be resolved without drawing if I could have found cover to possibly negotiate or wait it out from.

I can tell you that I will probably never forget that moment, even though it only existed in my mind in the middle of an anonymous August night. Is it possible to have post traumatic stress from a nightmare?

oh yeah, and i need to work on that reflex to touch my waistband when I feel threatened. That's bad bad.
User avatar
LedJedi
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1002
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:29 am
Location: Houston, TX

Postby BrassMonkey » Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:03 am

Man,
That's horrible.

You know, touching your weapon could be interpreted as deadly force, in which case, I fear you would be the one going to jail...
BrassMonkey, that funky monkey....
===========================
Springfield TRP
Glock 22
Glock 21
Walther P22
BrassMonkey
Senior Member
 
Posts: 993
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:49 pm
Location: North of Mckinney

Postby LedJedi » Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:09 am

BrassMonkey wrote:Man,
That's horrible.

You know, touching your weapon could be interpreted as deadly force, in which case, I fear you would be the one going to jail...


trust me, that has since crossed my mind.

I would like to think that if a real life situation ever happened like that a jury would be persuaded that since the weapon was not visible and i was just trying to casually touch it through my clothes without raising alarm AND that I have a clear criminal history I would get some leeway in the reasonable doubt arena, but yeah, that crossed my mind.

that is a reflex i very much intend to work on suppressing.
User avatar
LedJedi
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1002
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:29 am
Location: Houston, TX

Postby BrassMonkey » Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:14 am

I am almost embarrassed to admit it, but my heart rate went to about 139 while I was reading that. Up until the part where I got mad at you...
BrassMonkey, that funky monkey....
===========================
Springfield TRP
Glock 22
Glock 21
Walther P22
BrassMonkey
Senior Member
 
Posts: 993
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:49 pm
Location: North of Mckinney

Postby jbirds1210 » Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:21 am

My thought was, Weaver stance? That is horrible! :grin:
NRA Life Member
TSRA Life Member

"No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child."
User avatar
jbirds1210
Moderator
 
Posts: 3345
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 5:36 pm
Location: Texas City, Texas

Postby LedJedi » Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:22 am

BrassMonkey wrote:I am almost embarrassed to admit it, but my heart rate went to about 139 while I was reading that. Up until the part where I got mad at you...


LOL.

well, i have to admit. I've been working on trying my hand at writing a bit of horror fiction here lately. That was good practice.

It was completely a true story though. I woke up in sweat soaked sheets. At least I hope it was sweat. :)
User avatar
LedJedi
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1002
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:29 am
Location: Houston, TX

Postby Kalrog » Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:28 am

Dang. I was about to yell at you for typing this in a public forum... but wow. Heart rate going down.
Kalrog
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1884
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 10:11 am
Location: Leander, TX

Postby Venus Pax » Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:54 am

I often worry about what to do with oblivious friends and relatives.
I took one of the Dallas crime links from a thread here and attached it to an e-mail to my step-sister. I also told her about the trouble some of our Plano posters are reading/hearing about in their nicer community. I got a rather short reply that they do not go into Dallas and that nothing like that ever happens where she lives (north of Dallas in the 'burbs.) After all, where she lives, it's nice. GRRR.

My mom is more receptive. She still has a mama-bear instinct, even though I'm over 30. I've told her to make sure she isn't between me and the attacker. That will actually be hard for her, but I reminded her that, since I'm the only one with a gun, the bullet doesn't need to make any detours before hitting an attacker. She agreed to run for cover/safety.

In your dream, your friend was oblivious. This is what scares me with regard to my friends and family.
"If a man breaks in your house, he ain't there for iced tea." Mom & Dad.

The NRA & TSRA are a bargain; they're much cheaper than the cold, dead hands experience.
Image
Venus Pax
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3079
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 5:27 pm
Location: SE Texas

Postby Dougmyers5 » Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:02 pm

You need to dream you have smarter friends and dumber bad guys! :lol:

:idea: Or better yet make the bad guys be beautiful women! :shock:
2be1-ask1
-----------------
DougMyers
NRA Endowed Life Member
CHL Issued June 2007
Member # 1567
http://www.texasopencarry.com/
Dougmyers5
Senior Member
 
Posts: 208
Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 11:34 pm
Location: DFW Texas

Postby O6nop » Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:51 pm

Trey grabs a magazine and we’re both facing the back wall.

I recommend keeping your back to the wall! ;-)
I believe there is safety in numbers..
numbers like: 9, .22, .38, .357, .45, .223, 5.56, 7.62, 6.5, .30-06...
O6nop
Senior Member
 
Posts: 680
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:23 pm
Location: Austin

Postby HighVelocity » Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:15 pm

That was some nightmare alright. In mine, the badguys all throw their wallets in a big bowl, drop to their knees and start repenting.
I am scared of empty guns and keep mine loaded at all times. The family knows the guns are loaded and treats them with respect. Loaded guns cause few accidents; empty guns kill people every year. -Elmer Keith. 1961
User avatar
HighVelocity
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3374
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:54 pm
Location: DFW, TX

Postby Lumberjack98 » Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:24 pm

Kalrog wrote:Dang. I was about to yell at you for typing this in a public forum... but wow. Heart rate going down.


+1

Dang! Sure had me going on that one. Great scenario to think about.
Texas XD Practical Shooters Association
NRA Lifetime Member
TSRA Lifetime Member
User avatar
Lumberjack98
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1163
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:15 pm
Location: Katy

Postby dws1117 » Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:07 pm

Had me going also. I was also surprised that someone would recant such a story in a public forum, especially so soon after the event.

I've had nightmares like that a few times. I believe that they are kind of neat in that in some strange way you can actually learn something.
User avatar
dws1117
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1750
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:54 pm
Location: Spring, TX.

Postby fm2 » Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:30 pm

i need to work on that reflex to touch my waistband when I feel threatened. That's bad bad.


Yep, that's a bad habit.
fm2
Senior Member
 
Posts: 858
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:54 pm
Location: TEXAS

Wow!

Postby RoundRock_Gun_Fan » Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:42 pm

If your having dreams (nightmares) like this I suggest you stop eating spicy food before you go to sleep!!! :razz:
One of my biggest fears is what happened to you as far as the gun not coming out. I have a P229 that I carry in a Galco summer comfort IWB and I haven't had any issues yet.
I did buy a Uncle Mikes, Fobus knock off, with tension screws. I adjusted the tension screws to the point where the gun won't fall out when you flip it over, but when I put it on my belt I can't get the gun to budge. :???: If I take it off the belt and pull on it the gun comes right out! Still trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong! Needless to say I haven't worn it yet.
Let's just pray your nightmare never comes true!

RR
Para-Ordnance 1911 SSP .45
Colt 1911 Government Model (1913)
User avatar
RoundRock_Gun_Fan
Member
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 3:33 pm
Location: Round Rock

Next

Return to Never Again!!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests