460 Rowland

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460 Rowland

Postby ghostrider » Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:28 pm

Anyone else here besides me reload (and shoot) the 460 Rowland? For those that haven't heard about it, its essentially a stretched/strengthened .45acp case that allows for rather hot ballistics.

http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/rowland.htm
http://www.realguns.com/archives/106.htm
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Re: 460 Rowland

Postby Mike1951 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:50 pm

I'm real close to making a decision on getting the kit, but I've been wanting one since Johnny Rowlands' Guns & Gears show was on the Men's Channel.

I've always checked back periodically to Clark's site, but I never wanted to give up one of my Springfields or my Kimber to use for the .460. The other day, I noticed that they have added the Taurus PT1911 to their short list of 1911's acceptable for the conversion. I just happen to have two blued and one stainless PT1911's, so using one of the blued ones means I don't have to invest in another 1911 for the conversion.

I don't know how much a regular FFL would pay for the kit, but my C&R discount with Brownell's gives it to me for $255, or $40 less than buying direct from Clark.

I can get Starline brass from Graf & Sons for $109.20/500. Plus, I would probably buy at least 100rds of each of the Georgia Arms loads (185gr JHP at 1400, 185gr JHP at 1550) to get me started. Even though I already have .45acp dies, I would probably buy another set so I could leave the toolhead set up for my 550B.

Can you tell I've considered this? The only thing left is to pull the trigger. Timing would have been perfect a few years ago. Now that I'm older, I find myself reverting to less powerful rounds as I just don't enjoy blasting as much as I used to.

While the liabilities of certain equipment/caliber choices has been beaten to death, I could see where a .460 Rowland 1911 with the compensator, shooting 185gr Nosler JHP at 1550fps might not be an ideal carry gun. So that relegates the Rowland idea back to just being a 'toy', which is why I'm struggling with making the purchase.
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Re: 460 Rowland

Postby ghostrider » Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:36 pm

>I've always checked back periodically to Clark's site, but I never wanted to give up one of
>my Springfields or my Kimber to use for the .460.

'give up' as in having the frame machined for a ramped barrel, or something else?


> Plus, I would probably buy at least 100rds of each of the Georgia Arms loads

Corbon is now making 3 different loads in 460 Rowland now too.


> shooting 185gr Nosler JHP at 1550fps might not be an ideal carry gun.

agreed. I built mine for hunting. It is said that you can fire regular .45ACP rounds in it (though they have to be hot to cycle that 24lb recoil spring) and I have done it, but I think it stretches the brass a bit, so I don't do that. If I want ligher loads, I load 45ACP +P or 45 Super data in the 460 Rowland brass.
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Re: 460 Rowland

Postby Mike1951 » Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:11 am

ghostrider wrote:>I've always checked back periodically to Clark's site, but I never wanted to give up one of
>my Springfields or my Kimber to use for the .460.

'give up' as in having the frame machined for a ramped barrel, or something else?


Give up as in my Springfield loaded 5" stainless has over $400 of work done by Actions by T that I won't mess with. My Champion is one that they no longer offer the kit for and it runs too good as it is. I can't see installing one on my Kimber Eclipse Pro II. And if a frame is going to take a beating, better a <$500 Taurus than a more expensive model.

> Plus, I would probably buy at least 100rds of each of the Georgia Arms loads

Corbon is now making 3 different loads in 460 Rowland now too.


Actually, Corbon offers 4 loadings. A 255gr @ 1100fps, a 230 JHP @ 1250fps, a 230 FMJ @ 1100fps, and the 185 JHP @ 1425fps.

I wound up ordering 100 of the 1400fps load and 50 of the 1550fps load from Georgia Arms. I may not shoot large quantities of the hot load. Apparently Corbon consulted with Wilson as far as load development. Wilson chose not to use a compensator, which is the only thing that controls recoil and lockup on the Clark conversion. I guess only time will tell if Wilson's .460 will stand the torture. Corbon's 185gr load is on par with Georgia Arms milder load. Corbon offers two 230gr loads while Georgia Arms discontinued all 230gr loadings due to fear of bullet setback. I may definitely try Corbon's 255gr.


> shooting 185gr Nosler JHP at 1550fps might not be an ideal carry gun.

agreed. I built mine for hunting. It is said that you can fire regular .45ACP rounds in it (though they have to be hot to cycle that 24lb recoil spring) and I have done it, but I think it stretches the brass a bit, so I don't do that. If I want ligher loads, I load 45ACP +P or 45 Super data in the 460 Rowland brass.


I know they say you can shoot ACP in it, but the extractor is the only thing that would be holding the case. I doubt that a straight wall case stretches that much, but it might. I may never get to go hunting, but I've wanted one of these since Johnny's last TV show was on the the Men's Channel. It's even questionable now how much I can stand to shoot it. My hands still ache from just trying to assemble it with that 24# spring.

But the kit is installed and the ammo arrived today. I can't put it off too much longer.
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Re: 460 Rowland

Postby ghostrider » Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:41 pm

>Give up as in my Springfield loaded 5" stainless has over $400 of work done by Actions by T that
>I won't mess with. My Champion is one that they no longer offer the kit for and it runs too good as
>it is. I can't see installing one on my Kimber Eclipse Pro II. And if a frame is going to take a beating,
>better a <$500 Taurus than a more expensive model.

understood.
I built mine from a bare frame, so that wasn't an issue for me.
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Re: 460 Rowland

Postby ghostrider » Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:41 pm

let us know what you think of it once you've fired a few rounds :-)
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Re: 460 Rowland

Postby stlgreg » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:42 pm

Today I installed the Clark drop in kit on my Springfield Mil Spec Stainless. I had already replaced the sites with a fiber optic slotted front and an adjustable BoMar cut rear. That 24 pound spring is certainly an ordeal. A little blood, a bit of searching, and some cussing later I got everything together. And then I took it apart and did it again. And again. Not a sucker for punishment, but I learn best by doing. It does get easier.
I plan on loading 200 grn XTP’s in front of Power Pistol for a trial run. I am building this pistol for deer hunting here in Missouri. Any tips would be appreciated!
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Re: 460 Rowland

Postby ghostrider » Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:14 pm

yes, that 24lb spring is a bit of a challenge.

I've read that the .45 XTPs aren't up to the speed that they will come out of the 460 (figure ~1350fps) since they were designed for .45ACP at < 1000fps, but I have know first-hand evidence of this.

I load Rem golden sabres and Cast Performance 265gr hard cast. I haven't chronographed them yet. I've tried HS-6, Blue Dot, and Power Pistol. My preferred powder is SR 4759.
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Re: 460 Rowland

Postby Mike1951 » Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:56 pm

This the inquiry I sent and answer received from Hornady tech support about their bullets:

All three of these bullets should perform between 700fps and 1500fps.

-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 5:00 PM
To: tech
Subject: Technical Inquiries

***WEB REQUEST***
Subject: Technical Inquiries

re: .451 handgun bullets

Do have ideal velocity paramaters or velocity limits on your .451
diameter bullets? Specifically, regarding use in .460 Rowland where
185gr might reach 1550, 200gr might reach 1450, and 230gr might reach
1350.

As part of the same answer, are there any of your offerings that you
would not recommend?


During my intensive reading on the .460, I did read about one brand of JHP that was not suitable, but it wasn't the XTP.
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Re: 460 Rowland

Postby stlgreg » Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:22 pm

Thanks for the input. Tomorrow is the day I test the 460 with the 200 grn XTPs. I only loaded 25 behind a weighed 12.2 charge of Power Pistol. I am going to a public range and they do not allow a chronograph. I mainly want to test the function of the Clark drop in kit. Thanks again!
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Re: 460 Rowland

Postby Mike1951 » Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:32 pm

Since last night I did come across one comment that Speer did not recommend their 185gr bullets due to the very high velocity.

I've had mine together for awhile now and still haven't fired it.
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Re: 460 Rowland

Postby stlgreg » Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:27 am

The conversion worked very well. I installed the 24 pound spring but have read elsewhere that the 20 pound spring is recommended for stainless models. My first shot didn’t count because I fired with my left hand and basically ducked under the bench. Maybe I am over cautious but I still have all my fingers, both my eyes, and a healthy respect for high pressure. I settled into the sight picture after the theatrics and found the pistol easy to shoot. I only fired from seven yards and all bullet holes were touching. I need to install a lower front sight because the groups were 1.4 inches lower than point of aim, and I had my rear sight tightened down. I did not notice any unusual stress markings on the slide or frame but 25 rounds is early in the testing process.
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Re: 460 Rowland

Postby Sailor » Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:00 pm

Just noticed this today....I have been a .460 Rowland, .400 Corbon, 9X23 fan for quite some time. I made my own .460 Rowland with a .45ACP "B" Reamer and an old 5" Nowlin .45ACP barrel that I had our local gunsmith, Gene Williams, thread on a single port compensator. It was fitted to a Colt Commander slide and frame. I use a 20# Commander length spring and Wilson shok buffs. All works extremely well. I prefer Longshot and/or AA#7 powders for heavy reloads and use 185gr. Golden Saber bullets for pig hunting.

Pigs are dangerous animals and the .460 is an auto and it can jam.....Never hunt pig w/o a large caliber, easily accessible revolver as back up.

Cody
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Re: 460 Rowland

Postby ghostrider » Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:08 pm

>I prefer Longshot and/or AA#7 powders for heavy reloads and use 185gr. Golden Saber bullets
>for pig hunting.

how well have the Golden Sabre's worked? I've purchased some to try out, though I've also loaded 265gr Cast Performance for hunting.
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Re: 460 Rowland

Postby ghostrider » Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:52 pm

I chronographed a few rounds of the Georgia 185gr load yesterday and got these numbers:

1554, 1544, 1550, 1543, 1555

That gives an IPSC power factor of about 288 :-)

The Corbon 185gr load gives: 1443, 1443, 1461, 1447fps

The 255gr Corbon load gave me 1099 and 1118fps.
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