New to Reloading

[EKO]

I have ordered some equipment and all should be here by Friday.

I am starting out with a Lee handloader. just to see if this is for me. to start out I will use for light .38 Special/.357 loads for my new SAA replica and then progress to 9mm and .40 S&W this what I have ordered so far;

Ordered: 1 Shipped: 1 90277 MODERN-RELOADING-2ED-NEW
Ordered: 1 Shipped: 1 90685 BL-HAND-PRESS-ONLY
Ordered: 1 Shipped: 1 90964 4-DIE-SET-38SPL-CARB
Ordered: 1 Shipped: 1 USABSOLUTE USABSOLUTE PLUS 1 CAL.WEIGHT 200G
Ordered: 1 Shipped: 1 90101 PRIMER-POCKET-CLEANER
Ordered: 1 Shipped: 1 90100 IMP.-POWDER-MEASURE-KIT
Ordered: 1 Shipped: 1 90600 BREECH-LOCK-BUSHING-(2)
Ordered: 1 Shipped: 1 90006 RESIZING-LUBE-1-TUBE-

Please comment If I need anything else


Now comes the problem -- Primers -- Unable to find small pistol
there is all kind of Magnum small pistol primer. any thoughts on using for light loads with Trail Boss powder, can't seem to find any Info.

[EKO]

found this data

38 SPECIAL
Case: Winchester Twist: 1:18.75" Barrel: 7.7" Trim: 1.145" Primer: Winchester SP
Bullet: 125 GR. LRNFP Dia. .358" COL: 1.445" Trail Boss 3.0 753 11,600 CUP 5.3 952 13,400 CUP
Bullet: 158 GR. LSWC Dia. .357" COL: 1.455" Trail Boss 2.7 661 11,400 PSI 4.2 804 13,700 CUP

357 MAGNUM Case: Winchester Twist: 1:18.75" Barrel: 10" Trim: 1.285" Primer: Winchester SPM
Bullet: 125 GR. LRNFP Dia. .358" COL: 1.580" Trail Boss 3.5 874 14,900 CUP 5.3 1035 17,900 CUP
Bullet: 158 GR. LRNFP Dia. .358" COL: 1.610" Trail Boss 3.2 754 16,500 CUP 4.2 865 20,400 CUP

Are the differences in pressure due to the Primer? the only other difference I see is case length and barrel length.

[DocV]

You will eventually want a scale. Look for a good, used beam scale. I picked one up for under 20 bucks. A powder meter also comes in handy. Again, used is cheaper and just as good as new.

I would start with 38 special.

[mr surveyor]

I would NOT use magnum primers with Trail Boss. Actually, there's only a couple of powders (110 and 296 come to mind) that I would ever consider magnum primers.

And, for what it's worth, Trail Boss does make for some fun, light weight shooting, and very safe in most anything that you don't over charge to "compressed" volumes.

[ffemt300]

set of dial or digital calipers for measuring over cartridge lengths among other things. Dont limit yourself to one reloading manual. you can never have too many. I picked up Hornadys for $20 at Cabela's last weekend.

[EKO]

Thanks all for the input, I have a digital scale on order, hope that is sufficient. and I have all kinds of calipers. I used to be a machinist,

I would NOT use magnum primers with Trail Boss. Actually, there's only a couple of powders (110 and 296 come to mind) that I would ever consider magnum primers.

And, for what it's worth, Trail Boss does make for some fun, light weight shooting, and very safe in most anything that you don't over charge to "compressed" volumes.

Mr. Surveyor, are you recommending this because magnum primers are not needed for trail boss or for safety reasons.

The reason I ask this is because I am unable to get the regular pistol primers right now and wondering if they are safe to use. from what I am reading (don't know how true) the magnum primers are only producing 50-80 more FPS in 38 and 40-60 FPS in 357. Not sure what that equates in CUP

I am asking a friend of mine to test in his guns He just

[mr surveyor]

due to the extra "oomph" of Magnum primers, some of the faster burning powders can be ignited to fast into the powder column and create a severe pressure spike...more like a detonation rather than ignition. If the (verifiable) load data specifically states to use magnum primers, then it's warranted for use with that powder/load. If not specified, then either it's not necessary or possibly not entirely safe.

Always follow the load data from a reliable source...and better yet, verify it with another reputable source. Mis-prints in load manuals are not unheard of, so a second (or even third) source is always comforting.

I'm sure there are other more experienced reloaders than can explain this much better than I can.

[DocV]

Thought of a couple more things.
Not an absolute requirement but I use my LE Wilson "Case Gage" [sic] every time I handload:
http://www.lewilsondirect.com/pistolmaxgage.aspx

Some reloading trays:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/945674/frankford-arsenal-perfect-fit-reloading-tray-4-38-special-357-magnum-762x39mm-50-round-blue

And, maybe, a bullet puller. ( I have never had to use a one for my own reloads -yet- and there are other non-explosive ways to disassemble rounds )

[EKO]

due to the extra "oomph" of Magnum primers, some of the faster burning powders can be ignited to fast into the powder column and create a severe pressure spike...more like a detonation rather than ignition. If the (verifiable) load data specifically states to use magnum primers, then it's warranted for use with that powder/load. If not specified, then either it's not necessary or possibly not entirely safe.

Always follow the load data from a reliable source...and better yet, verify it with another reputable source. Mis-prints in load manuals are not unheard of, so a second (or even third) source is always comforting.

I'm sure there are other more experienced reloaders than can explain this much better than I can.

I can understand that, will research some more.

[Jumping Frog]

Don't get complacent about making changes to the components listed for published load data.

For example, in Handloader magazine, Aug 2012 edition p. 18, the Western Powders ballistician Keith Anderson was testing +P .45 Colt loads (aka "Ruger style" loads).

Keeping the bullet, case, powder, and length constant, he tested different primers for the same load.

There was a 13,460 psi variation in average pressure between Winchester LP primers (22,490 psi) and CCI 350 primers (35,950 psi). That is a 60% pressure increase by only changing the primer.

FWIW, that 60% pressure increase yielded an additional 114 fps velocity, pushing a 310 gr Mt Baldy Keith-style lead bullet at 1,352 fps versus 1,239 fps.

Similarly, changes in bullet construction can have a profound impact on pressure.

It is standard SAFE handloading procedure to never swap components in & out all willy nilly without re-working a load. Just as you wouldn't take a redline max load and then just stick a different bullet in there or try a totally different headstamp of brass, you wouldn't stick some other primer in there just to see what happens. You'd re-work the load, starting over from your safe starting point, likely 10 or 15% below max.

The best way to get the most out of using a magnum primer is to approach the load as though you've never built that load, in that caliber, with that bullet or that powder before. Work from your starting point forward, looking for pressure signs. .

If the load in question is a light or moderate load with plenty of room on the far end to work higher, there isn't a lot of risk.

[Middle Age Russ]

38 SPECIAL
Case: Winchester Twist: 1:18.75" Barrel: 7.7" Trim: 1.145" Primer: Winchester SP
Bullet: 125 GR. LRNFP Dia. .358" COL: 1.445" Trail Boss 3.0 753 11,600 CUP 5.3 952 13,400 CUP
Bullet: 158 GR. LSWC Dia. .357" COL: 1.455" Trail Boss 2.7 661 11,400 PSI 4.2 804 13,700 CUP

357 MAGNUM Case: Winchester Twist: 1:18.75" Barrel: 10" Trim: 1.285" Primer: Winchester SPM
Bullet: 125 GR. LRNFP Dia. .358" COL: 1.580" Trail Boss 3.5 874 14,900 CUP 5.3 1035 17,900 CUP
Bullet: 158 GR. LRNFP Dia. .358" COL: 1.610" Trail Boss 3.2 754 16,500 CUP 4.2 865 20,400 CUP


Are the differences in pressure due to the Primer? the only other difference I see is case length and barrel length.

Notice that there are differences in the powder charge weight as well, which is a large part of the difference in pressure and the resulting velocities. For example, the 38sp 125gr load uses 3.0 grains powder whereas the 357 load uses 3.5 grains.

[EKO]

38 SPECIAL
Case: Winchester Twist: 1:18.75" Barrel: 7.7" Trim: 1.145" Primer: Winchester SP
Bullet: 125 GR. LRNFP Dia. .358" COL: 1.445" Trail Boss 3.0 753 11,600 CUP 5.3 952 13,400 CUP
Bullet: 158 GR. LSWC Dia. .357" COL: 1.455" Trail Boss 2.7 661 11,400 PSI 4.2 804 13,700 CUP

357 MAGNUM Case: Winchester Twist: 1:18.75" Barrel: 10" Trim: 1.285" Primer: Winchester SPM
Bullet: 125 GR. LRNFP Dia. .358" COL: 1.580" Trail Boss 3.5 874 14,900 CUP 5.3 1035 17,900 CUP
Bullet: 158 GR. LRNFP Dia. .358" COL: 1.610" Trail Boss 3.2 754 16,500 CUP 4.2 865 20,400 CUP


Are the differences in pressure due to the Primer? the only other difference I see is case length and barrel length.

Notice that there are differences in the powder charge weight as well, which is a large part of the difference in pressure and the resulting velocities. For example, the 38sp 125gr load uses 3.0 grains powder whereas the 357 load uses 3.5 grains.

I knew that, I was comparing the max loads

[EKO]

Don't get complacent about making changes to the components listed for published load data.

For example, in Handloader magazine, Aug 2012 edition p. 18, the Western Powders ballistician Keith Anderson was testing +P .45 Colt loads (aka "Ruger style" loads).

Keeping the bullet, case, powder, and length constant, he tested different primers for the same load.

There was a 13,460 psi variation in average pressure between Winchester LP primers (22,490 psi) and CCI 350 primers (35,950 psi). That is a 60% pressure increase by only changing the primer.

FWIW, that 60% pressure increase yielded an additional 114 fps velocity, pushing a 310 gr Mt Baldy Keith-style lead bullet at 1,352 fps versus 1,239 fps.

Similarly, changes in bullet construction can have a profound impact on pressure.

It is standard SAFE handloading procedure to never swap components in & out all willy nilly without re-working a load. Just as you wouldn't take a redline max load and then just stick a different bullet in there or try a totally different headstamp of brass, you wouldn't stick some other primer in there just to see what happens. You'd re-work the load, starting over from your safe starting point, likely 10 or 15% below max.

The best way to get the most out of using a magnum primer is to approach the load as though you've never built that load, in that caliber, with that bullet or that powder before. Work from your starting point forward, looking for pressure signs. .

If the load in question is a light or moderate load with plenty of room on the far end to work higher, there isn't a lot of risk.

Thanks Jumping frog, to start out with I will let sleeping dogs lie and shoot up my stock until I can get some Primers.
May load up a few 357 loads that are in the charts.