I was on the phone with LT last week about this, but thought I'd put it on the board for everyone:
Last time I loaded, my rounds weren't cycling. LT walked me through the crimping process. I now see that crimping is necessary.
Since Lee's seating die is also the crimping die, I'm having difficulty getting these two features to balance.
On my first attempt, I got the bullet stuck in the die. I had to go out back to dh's workshop to hammer it out. (Hoping I didn't mess up the die.)
Anyway, I thought I'd post this picture. I'm not sure if you can tell, but a few of the bullets were seating in way too far. I'm not sure what I did here. I kept the die locked in at the same position.
What would cause the seating to change?
"If a man breaks in your house, he ain't there for iced tea." Mom & Dad.
The NRA & TSRA are a bargain; they're much cheaper than the cold, dead hands experience.
Something looks really wrong to me but it may just be an optical illusion due to the camera. The picture appears to show way too much crimp but again this may just be the camera angle. The crimp should not cut into the bullet, or if so only slightly. Removing the bell to insure feeding is the purpose of the taper crimp.
Looking at the two bullets on the right they appear to be of different design. That certainly would cause a variation in seating depth. The pictures give the impression of a huge difference in where the bulllets are relative to the shoulder but when looking at the top of the bullets it is not that much difference.
I think you should get LT or someone back on the phone and go through this again, because something is not right about this as I see from the pictures. The problem you are having seating and crimping at the same time is why I always recommend using a separate crimp die. To me doing both at the same time causes more problems than it's worth.
Don't be discouraged, finding solutions to these issues is part of the fun of reloading.
When I started loading (very recently) I found that I could not get my ammo to run properly while crimping with the seating die. I took the crimp completely off of that die and now use a Lee factory crimp for the purpose. I have found that the factory crimp gives a much more uniform case
I still check each one with a case gage before putting it in a magazine.
LT knows a lot better than I do.....this is just one of the many problems I had with my first batch of ammo!
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"No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child."
You're putting too much crimp on the bullet. The seater stem that goes down through the die and is adjustable from the top should be run down more and the die itself backed out some.
Here is what my lead semi wadcutters look like and they feed properly.
I am scared of empty guns and keep mine loaded at all times. The family knows the guns are loaded and treats them with respect. Loaded guns cause few accidents; empty guns kill people every year. -Elmer Keith. 1961
You can save yourself a lot of headaches by "Taper Crimping" all of your reloads.
Some folks do not consider it necessary....and it may not be your problem in this situation, but its a good practice nonetheless. A proper taper crimp tends to "iron out" the bell in the mouth of the case.
Tips:
Only expand the cases enough to start the bullet.
Make certain the bullet is straight before running it through your seating die.
I always used a separate carbide tapering die to finish with.
You'll spend more time playing with (and ruining) rounds trying to use the factory combo die....than if you just purchase a dedicated taper crimping die.
Don't get discouraged, learning the ins and outs of reloading takes a little while.
I would discard the rounds you have posted here (and any that look like them), .45 acp headspaces on the case mouth...and those are likely to give you trouble.
Find one bullet weight and shape that you like, set up your loader (and dies) for that particular bullet...and don't change it.
Are your pictures of a new batch or are these the 5 you had when we were on the phone.
Yes jbird I like the Lee crimp die & will have one before I run another batch. It is tedious to get the die to do both jobs at the same time.
Carry 24-7 or guess right.
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NRA/TSRA Life Member - TFC Member #11
LT, this is a new batch. The ones I worked on while on the phone w/ you already had a bullet seated. They just needed crimping.
I'll go ahead and order that crimp die. From what everyone here is saying, using the 2-in-1 combo is more trouble than it's worth.
"If a man breaks in your house, he ain't there for iced tea." Mom & Dad.
The NRA & TSRA are a bargain; they're much cheaper than the cold, dead hands experience.
Carry 24-7 or guess right.
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NRA/TSRA Life Member - TFC Member #11
Those ran well. Low kick, but one stove pipe. I'll up the load by a tenth of a grain on the next batch and see how that goes.
As far as the seating & crimp w/ that particular batch, it went well.
I ordered a crimping die for both my .45 and .380.
"If a man breaks in your house, he ain't there for iced tea." Mom & Dad.
The NRA & TSRA are a bargain; they're much cheaper than the cold, dead hands experience.
HighVelocity is exactly right, there is too much crimp.
You might wish to try this:
Decide on an OAL - for 200 grain semi-wadcutters, 1.250" (+/- 0.010") works well in my pistol, and it is often written in manuals.
Back the seater/crimp die out two turns or so and lock it with the nut - does not have to be real tight. Start a bullet in the case mouth, raise the ram, and turn the seater stem - not the die body - in until it contacts the bullet meplat (nose). Lower the ram and turn the seater stem in a little more, and iterate until you have the bullet seated to the desired OAL, with no crimp at all yet. This gives yo a round to set the seater to, *after* you set your crimp die.
Now that you have a dummy round the right length, back the seater stem out several turns and raise the ram, put the dummy round in the shellholder, unlock the die body and run it down until you just feel it touch the case mouth. Lower the ram and turn the die body in maybe 1/8 or 1/4 turn and lock it again. You will need to iterate on this setting, down a little at a time and measure each time. Note that the seater stem is still unsecrewed so it is up out of the way.
Raise the ram up to test the setting of the crimp die, lower it and remove the dummy round, and measure the case mouth OD with your caliper. It ought to be just a few thousandths smaller than the OD part way up the case toward the head - in other words, just tapered down the slightest bit. I think you will find that 0.468"-0.471" at the mouth is about right.
Try the round in your chamber. If all is well, lock the die body down firmly, put the dummy round back on the press, raise the ram, and now screw the seater stem down until it contacts the meplat. This comes close to getting you back to the desired OAL - you can fiddle it closer when you start loading more rounds.
With all that said, you would be wise to seat and crimp with two different dies at two stations. This will get you going now, though.
Your doing better than I did on my first reloads. I started with 45-70's, and the first 3 that I seated/crimped came out looking like accordions.
Still have them sitting on the shelf above my loading bench.
Once you learn how to set them, it only takes a couple of minutes to dial them in for each different type of bullet shape you change to.
With a separate die you are adding one more pull of the handle to have a finished product.
Just takes a little practice.
Isn't there another reloader around your area that can walk you through it?
Carry 24-7 or guess right.
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NRA/TSRA Life Member - TFC Member #11
