Higher Education shouldn't be off limits.......

What should be on the 2007 agenda for CHL's?

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Higher Education shouldn't be off limits.......

Postby cyphur » Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:20 pm

Last night I took my wife to see a play at El Centro College. As an employee of the District, I was lucky enough to park in the tiny parking lot right in the building that I use when I have to do work there. We arrived around 630pm and it was already getting dark. Had I not been able to park 20 ft from the entrance, I would have had to walk a block or two for parking. Not something I want to do at night w/o "Piece of Mind".

I think higher education should be removed from the statutes, especially public higher education. Its funded by the state and taxpayers, there is absolutely no reason they should be able to declare it offlimits(the same as most other government-owned property).
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Postby TxFire » Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:45 pm

I'll go further to state that all PUBLIC education (K-12) and higher education should not be off limits. In other words, remove the school prohibition. I pretty much feel anything that is funded by tax dollars should not be allowed to be restricted from carry by CHL. Prisons and courts I could go along with.
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Postby Kalrog » Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:38 pm

I'll go one farther and say that the 2A is all that is needed. Concealed or open - your choice. Carry or not - your choice.
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Postby TxFire » Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:08 pm

Ok, I'll second that.
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Postby KBCraig » Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:45 pm

TxFire wrote:I pretty much feel anything that is funded by tax dollars should not be allowed to be restricted from carry by CHL. Prisons and courts I could go along with.


Make it courtrooms during an actual court session, and I'll go with that. "Courthouses" and "courts" and "places court employees work" are just too vague.

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Postby Venus Pax » Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:10 am

As a law-abiding citizen, I don't believe there should be any public place that should forbid me to carry. In fact, I should even be able to carry into courtrooms (gasp!). CHLers are the least likely to use a gun for an unlawful purpose in a courtroom (or anywhere else).

I can understand private businesses & citizens restricting my carry on their premises. THat's their land & they should be able to make those determinations; however, I can take my money elsewhere.

Public places, however, are technically mine too..... if you pay taxes, those places are yours.
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Postby Flatland2D » Sat Nov 11, 2006 1:53 pm

This topic is definitely something I would support for 2007. I just don't get the reasoning behind it. Am I more likely to use my handgun for an illegal purpose because I'm sitting in class or studying? I'm often at school for more hours than people working full time spend at their job. Walking around campus late at night or early in the morning isn't exactly safe. And most campus cops are a joke.

I kind of loosely compare this to the "if your old enough to go to war, you should be old enough to vote" philosophy. If I am a concealed handgun licensee, than I should be able to carry anywhere I go during a normal day.
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Postby barres » Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:53 am

Flatland2D wrote:I kind of loosely compare this to the "if your old enough to go to war, you should be old enough to vote" philosophy. If I am a concealed handgun licensee, than I should be able to carry anywhere I go during a normal day.


I work on prison facilities 5 days a week. That's normal for me. Should I be allowed to carry there? I don't care how alert you are, walking down a prison corridor with 20 inmates walking in one direction on one side of you and 20 more walking in the other direction on the other side, it is impossible to watch all of them all of the time.

There are some reasonable limits to where a CHL holder can carry. Schools are not one of them. Neither are bars, since carrying while intoxicated is already illegal. But that is just my opinion.
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Postby Liberty » Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:57 am

barres wrote:There are some reasonable limits to where a CHL holder can carry. Schools are not one of them. Neither are bars, since carrying while intoxicated is already illegal. But that is just my opinion.

Not everyone who enters a bar (a 51%er ) will get intoxicated.
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Postby Charles L. Cotton » Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:25 am

A compelling argument can be made for allowing CHL’s to carry on college campuses and I would be happy to make the argument. One of the strongest arguments in my opinion is giving female students the ability to defend themselves while on campus at night. How often do we hear of attacks against females occurring in dark, deserted parking lots or other dark and desolate areas of campus? I’m not suggesting that the prohibition should be relaxed only for female students, I’m simply stating that I believe they are most at risk and would thus benefit the most from a change in TPC 46.03.

That said, the political reality is such a change is virtually impossible. The public perception of college campuses is one of rowdy, often drunken parties sparked by visions of Animal House and Girls Gone Wild. While it would be possible to craft legislation that would allow campus-carry while addressing those concerns, to say it would be an uphill climb would be a gross understatement.

Unfortunately, I think it would take a highly publicized tragedy to change the public’s perception of campus-carry, but even that may not be enough. There is a common misconception that the Luby’s massacre was the driving force behind the filing of and passing of the original CHL statute in 1995. While the tragedy at Luby’s was certainly mentioned often during public hearings and even floor debates, it was not the driving force behind the passage of SB60. In fact, the Luby’s massacre occurred on October 16, 1991, only four months after the end of the 1991 Texas Legislative Session. In 1993, the CHL bill passed as a non-binding referendum to be voted upon by the public, but then-Governor Richards vetoed the bill. So the first opportunity to address the problem in the wake of Luby’s was a failure. When SB60 passed in 1995, Luby’s was discussed in committee hearings, but it was not the battle cry nor was it a driving force behind passage of the bill. There have already been countless assaults, rapes and even murders on campus at night since 1995, but there has been no hue and cry for change. Sadly, I believe this attitude will continue.

Chas.

P.S. I don’t want anyone to think I’m downplaying former Rep. Suzanna Gracia- Hupp’s testimony before both House and Senate Committees during public hearings on SB60. It was gut-wrenching and brought tears to the eyes of many who heard her describe the horror and helplessness of October 16, 1991. After SB 60 passed in 1995, Suzanna was elected to the Texas House of Representatives and proved to be one of gun owners' best friends.
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Postby KBCraig » Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Liberty wrote:
barres wrote:There are some reasonable limits to where a CHL holder can carry. Schools are not one of them. Neither are bars, since carrying while intoxicated is already illegal. But that is just my opinion.

Not everyone who enters a bar (a 51%er ) will get intoxicated.


I think that was the point: Bars are not one of the places where it's necessary to restrict carry.
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Postby barres » Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:21 pm

KBCraig wrote:
Liberty wrote:
barres wrote:There are some reasonable limits to where a CHL holder can carry. Schools are not one of them. Neither are bars, since carrying while intoxicated is already illegal. But that is just my opinion.

Not everyone who enters a bar (a 51%er ) will get intoxicated.


I think that was the point: Bars are not one of the places where it's necessary to restrict carry.


Exactly what I was trying to say. Since carrying while intoxicated is already illegal, and some who carry in a bar aren't even drinking at all*, bars shouldn't be off limits to CHL'ers. Neither should schools. Prisons should be off limits to CHL'ers, though. I'm undecided about courtrooms, personally.



* My father and I used to go to bars to play pool, and, since playing pool well requires good hand-eye coordination, we didn't drink while we played. Of course there was also the fact that I was underage at the time. ;-) So not everyone who goes to a bar is necessarily drinking. What about the "Designated Driver?"
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Postby stevie_d_64 » Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:51 pm

Figuratively speaking then, if "we" are trusted to carry under the protections of the law, and the hoops we have jumped through to obtain the license/permit...

Then technically we should be "trusted" to carry anytime, anywhere...

College campuses, schools regardless of grade or student demography, courthouses, and anywhere where general public demeanor is reasonable and controlled...

The only place I would consider, and not having a reason to go to one for any reason would be correctional facilities...

Everywhere else seems to be just some kind of hump some ninnie put in our way, and seems to have stuck us in a rut in this (and a few other states) situation...

Charles Cotton in my opinion would be the most excellent choice (and he'd do it anyway without any accolades from me) to be the presenter of reason in these debates...But one person can only do so much...I'm sure there would be a line from Charles back to my momma's house of people lined up ready to testify to remove every single restriction on us...But I am not so sure we'd be given the forum to voice that much reason...

And since these kind of ideas always come up on the heals around election time, I am confident that the current make-up of our elected officials may not be condusive to making appreciable gains to the end...

But every little chip at it does help...I do know that...

I've already fired off my first letter to Nick Lampson to put that office and his money where that NRA endorsement is...And prove it worthy...Otherwise...24 months is not a very long time...And I know some people chomping at the bit to knock him off that pedestal...

ok, ok...I'm done... :lol: sorry...
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Postby Venus Pax » Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:50 pm

We had a board meeting at the union office last night. I brought up CHLs being allowed to carry in the classroom.
Unfortunately, teachers are very divided on this issue, so it won't go anywhere.
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Postby Roger Howard » Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:51 pm

You would think with all the recent school shootings that it would be easy to get the restrictions on CHLer's removed. But we are fighting peoples emotions and their misperception. unfortinately we will have to take it one step at a time.
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