Change "Concealed Handgun" to "Concealed Weap

What should be on the 2007 agenda for CHL's?

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Change "Concealed Handgun" to "Concealed Weap

Postby mr fixit » Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:22 pm

How 'bout if we try to open up the options. It would be nice to have the option of a knife, or stun gun, or mace, or even a sawed off shotgun.
I think Florida is like that; if you can conceal it, you can carry it.

Just a thought.
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Postby anygunanywhere » Sat Aug 06, 2005 9:26 am

+1. Make mine an M-4 with grenade launcher.
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Re: Change "Concealed Handgun" to "Concealed

Postby txinvestigator » Sat Aug 06, 2005 2:52 pm

mr fixit wrote:How 'bout if we try to open up the options. It would be nice to have the option of a knife, or stun gun, or mace, or even a sawed off shotgun.
I think Florida is like that; if you can conceal it, you can carry it.

Just a thought.


Texas does not currently prohibit the carry of pepper spray, tasers, etc.

A knife that is not an "illegal knife" or switchblade can be carried too.

Shotguns and rifles that meet the barrel and overall length requirements can be carried too.
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Re: Change "Concealed Handgun" to "Concealed

Postby fiftycal » Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:14 pm

mr fixit wrote:How 'bout if we try to open up the options. It would be nice to have the option of a knife, or stun gun, or mace, or even a sawed off shotgun.
I think Florida is like that; if you can conceal it, you can carry it.


Currently you can carry an "illegal knive" or club with you if you have a CHL and are carrying a handgun. You can carry a "sawed off shotgun" if it is registered under NFA.
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Postby HighVelocity » Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:17 pm

I have arthritis and I use a knife many times a day. It sure would be nice to be able to carry an auto without worrying about who saw me whip it out to cut a piece of rope or open a box. :?
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Re: Change "Concealed Handgun" to "Concealed

Postby dolanp » Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:24 am

fiftycal wrote:Currently you can carry an "illegal knive" or club with you if you have a CHL and are carrying a handgun. You can carry a "sawed off shotgun" if it is registered under NFA.


Technically the law does indicate this is true the way it is written, however this is a very legally 'iffy' idea. I would not recommend trying it out.
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Re: Change "Concealed Handgun" to "Concealed

Postby txinvestigator » Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:46 am

dolanp wrote:
fiftycal wrote:Currently you can carry an "illegal knive" or club with you if you have a CHL and are carrying a handgun. You can carry a "sawed off shotgun" if it is registered under NFA.


Technically the law does indicate this is true the way it is written, however this is a very legally 'iffy' idea. I would not recommend trying it out.


I know we have had this discussion before, so I will just say this; Every LEO I know will arrest a CHL holder for UCW if they discover an illegal knife or club on or about that CHL holders person.

Right or wrong, how much will it cost to defend yourself in court?

There are plenty of other weapons that one can carry to avoid arrest.
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Re: Change "Concealed Handgun" to "Concealed

Postby fiftycal » Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:42 pm

txinvestigator wrote:
dolanp wrote:
fiftycal wrote:Currently you can carry an "illegal knive" or club with you if you have a CHL and are carrying a handgun. You can carry a "sawed off shotgun" if it is registered under NFA.


Technically the law does indicate this is true the way it is written, however this is a very legally 'iffy' idea. I would not recommend trying it out.


I know we have had this discussion before, so I will just say this; Every LEO I know will arrest a CHL holder for UCW if they discover an illegal knife or club on or about that CHL holders person.

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What is going to be the charge? "Unlawfully carrying a weapon lawfully"? Since 46.02 "does not apply" to someone with a handgun and a CHL what are you going to charge them with?

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Right or wrong, how much will it cost to defend yourself in court?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
And what is going to cost a LEO to defend against a Federal civil rights trial, an illegal arrest and a charge of official oppression? Or do you think the cop shop will pay for it?
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Re: Change "Concealed Handgun" to "Concealed

Postby txinvestigator » Sat Aug 13, 2005 12:21 pm

fiftycal wrote:
txinvestigator wrote:
dolanp wrote:
fiftycal wrote:Currently you can carry an "illegal knive" or club with you if you have a CHL and are carrying a handgun. You can carry a "sawed off shotgun" if it is registered under NFA.


Technically the law does indicate this is true the way it is written, however this is a very legally 'iffy' idea. I would not recommend trying it out.


I know we have had this discussion before, so I will just say this; Every LEO I know will arrest a CHL holder for UCW if they discover an illegal knife or club on or about that CHL holders person.

------------------------------------------------------------------
What is going to be the charge? "Unlawfully carrying a weapon lawfully"? Since 46.02 "does not apply" to someone with a handgun and a CHL what are you going to charge them with?

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Right or wrong, how much will it cost to defend yourself in court?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
And what is going to cost a LEO to defend against a Federal civil rights trial, an illegal arrest and a charge of official oppression? Or do you think the cop shop will pay for it?


Hey fifty, I am not a cop anymore. and if a LEO makes an arrest with good faith he is not going to be charged with any of thise things.

I don't care, as I don't carry a club or illegal knife.

I can tell you that just this morning In my CHL class (on lunch now) a Dallas County Deputy from the academy told us that they WILL arrest a CHL holder who is carrying a club or illegal knife.
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Postby KBCraig » Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:27 pm

The solution is to eliminate the "club or illegal knife" section from the Code.

It's outrageous that a Bowie knife is defined by name as an "illegal knife" in Texas. Not to mention the fact that there is no standardized definition of what a Bowie knife is (the very authentic Searles Bowie doesn't look like a Bowie to most people). I suppose that anything anyone wishes to call a Bowie knife will exceed the 5.5" blade length limit.

And speaking of that, where do you measure blade length? Do you include the ricasso, or only the sharpened portion?

And do away with the prohibition on automatics, too. The switchblade ban wsa the original "assault weapon" ban, except it didn't sunset. In this day of thumb studs and mechanisms like the Kershaw "Speed Safe", automatics are no faster than manuals.

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Re: Change "Concealed Handgun" to "Concealed

Postby Renegade » Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:06 pm

txinvestigator wrote:Hey fifty, I am not a cop anymore. and if a LEO makes an arrest with good faith he is not going to be charged with any of thise things.

I don't care, as I don't carry a club or illegal knife.

I can tell you that just this morning In my CHL class (on lunch now) a Dallas County Deputy from the academy told us that they WILL arrest a CHL holder who is carrying a club or illegal knife.


I'd call bull on him right there and inform I have such a knife. In fact, I am taking my renewal next week and I will make it a point to carry said knife.

Just because the land is filled with cops who cannot read or do not want to learn the law, does not mean I am going to runaway like scared chicken and give up my rights under the law. When you think of the sacrifices young soldiers are making to protect our rights over in Afghan/Iraq, being saddled with an illegal arrest is nothing. I will gladly step up to the plate. This one is so easy the LEO will be lucky to not go to jail, and I will get 6 figure settlement without even trying. My guess though is his supervisor will be smart enough to be able to read the law and nothing will happen, other than a short detainment.
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CWL

Postby USMC-COL » Sun Aug 14, 2005 6:55 pm

I'm for having the legislature change the CHL to a CWL (like Floroda's).

State preemption on all weapons would be necessary. What do we do about jurisdictions within TX that have knife laws different than those of the state? In San Antonio any knife under 5.5" that locks is illegal. A CRKT M-14/16T with a blade of 3.92" would be illegal in San Antonio - CHL or not.

Changing the law on printing as long there is no "obviously intentional flashing" would also be nice.
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Re: Change "Concealed Handgun" to "Concealed

Postby txinvestigator » Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:30 am

Renegade wrote:
txinvestigator wrote:Hey fifty, I am not a cop anymore. and if a LEO makes an arrest with good faith he is not going to be charged with any of thise things.

I don't care, as I don't carry a club or illegal knife.

I can tell you that just this morning In my CHL class (on lunch now) a Dallas County Deputy from the academy told us that they WILL arrest a CHL holder who is carrying a club or illegal knife.


I'd call bull on him right there and inform I have such a knife. In fact, I am taking my renewal next week and I will make it a point to carry said knife.

Just because the land is filled with cops who cannot read or do not want to learn the law, does not mean I am going to runaway like scared chicken and give up my rights under the law. When you think of the sacrifices young soldiers are making to protect our rights over in Afghan/Iraq, being saddled with an illegal arrest is nothing. I will gladly step up to the plate. This one is so easy the LEO will be lucky to not go to jail, and I will get 6 figure settlement without even trying. My guess though is his supervisor will be smart enough to be able to read the law and nothing will happen, other than a short detainment.


His supervisor is the Dallas County Sheriff, and it is policy. IMO, the law is clear, and only handguns are allowed under the CHL laws.

Do whatever you want though. Are you coming to our range? If so, please tell me what time you plan on making your stand, I will be teaching the guards and in another part of the building. I would love to see your experiment.
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Re: CWL

Postby txinvestigator » Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:33 am

USMC-COL wrote:Changing the law on printing as long there is no "obviously intentional flashing" would also be nice.


Texas does not have a printing law. It states that you commit a violation if you "intentionally fail to conceal".


Texas Penal Code
§46.035. Unlawful carrying of handgun by license holder.

(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder
carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the
authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and
intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
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Re: Change "Concealed Handgun" to "Concealed

Postby Renegade » Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:56 am

txinvestigator wrote:

His supervisor is the Dallas County Sheriff, and it is policy. IMO, the law is clear, and only handguns are allowed under the CHL laws.


My brother-in-law is a Dallas County Deputy and he is not aware of any such policy. He is aware of the law though, and as you say the law is clear (actually crystal clear), unfortunate so many LEOs can't read it:

§ 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his person a handgun, illegal knife, or club.

§ 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY. (b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
6) is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license issued under Article 4413(29ee), Revised Statutes, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person is carrying;


46.02 does not apply. I do not commits an offense if I intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about my person a handgun (required by 46.15), illegal knife, or club.
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