Giuliani: Is he as bad as Clinton, or is he even worse?

[frankie_the_yankee]

Your analysis is flawed, because it presumes that appointees by Giuliani(R) would rule the same as those by Bush(R), Bush(R) and Reagan(R), merely because they all have "(R)" behind their names. You have no basis to assume that, given Giuliani's record as being anti-gun and anti-individual rights.

My analysis is simply a statement of historical fact.

Any predictions are by nature less than certain.

But Rudy has said he would appoint Originalist judges in the mold of Scalia. There's a chance he is tellng the truth.

What kind of judges has Hillary said she would appoint? And what are the chances she is tellng the truth?

With Rudy appointing judges there is a chance that we will get some good ones.

With Hillary appointing judges, there is no chance whatsoever.

Remember, judges appointed by 3 different Republican presidents voted in favor of individual rights almost all of the time. And judges appointed by 2 different Democrat presidents, one of whom was Hillary's husband, voted against individual rights 100% of the time.

If you or anyone thinks Hillary is going to break this pattern you are welcome to think that.

But beyond simply declaring my analysis to be "flawed", how about you or anyone providing some evidence, maybe some statement by Hillary, that would lend credence to the idea that she would appoint Originalists?

Anything, anything at all.

[jimlongley]

Do you think it will be more favorable than Rudy vs. Hillary?

Yup.

[frankie_the_yankee]

Do you think it will be more favorable than Rudy vs. Hillary?

Yup.

I hope so too.

And I hope you are referring to just the major party candidates when you predict that the choice will be more favorable than Rudy vs. Hillary. Voting for the "Slow Wheat" candidate doesn't count.

But if it is Rudy vs. Hillary, then I'm voting for Rudy. And everyone in a contested state had better do the same thing. Failing to do that is equivalent to voting for Hillary/Obama, and we know what kind of federal judges they will appoint.

Please save your protest votes for some time when they will not wreck the country.

[Trainman]

spend your vote to achieve victory over those (democrats) who are overwhelmingly for undermining of our 2A rights.

Your vote is the currency of the politician's realm. Spend it for victory for your cause, not to support an unachievable ideal or goal.

If a democrat wins, the 'collective right' argument will gain more ground and the RKBA will be set back again.

[lrb111]

Please save your protest votes for some time when they will not wreck the country.

That is a good point. Guliani and Clinton are hardly different,,,,,

If I said there was a Hillary/Giuliani ticket there are folks that would believe it.

[jimlongley]

when you predict that the choice will be more favorable than Rudy vs. Hillary.

I do not see anywhere that I have made such a prediction.

[frankie_the_yankee]

when you predict that the choice will be more favorable than Rudy vs. Hillary.

I do not see anywhere that I have made such a prediction.

How about this post?

Do you think it will be more favorable than Rudy vs. Hillary?

Yup.

If you meant something different by that, please explain. I missed it.

[jimlongley]

when you predict that the choice will be more favorable than Rudy vs. Hillary.

I do not see anywhere that I have made such a prediction.

How about this post?

Do you think it will be more favorable than Rudy vs. Hillary?

Yup.

If you meant something different by that, please explain. I missed it.

You must not have looked.

I don't see that as any kind of prediction, you asked a question, I answered, if you want to engage in some specious debate over the answer, you can go ahead, but it will be a lonely and one sided debate. It's not a prediction it's just a statement of my thought.

The original qestion was if anyone perceived Rudy as worse than Hilly, and I stated that I do, and for what reason. You have since accused me of being for Hilly, which is not true, you have stated that you will vote for Rudy and you berate anyone who even implies that someone else could be on the ticket. You sound to me like just another Rudy carpetbagger trying to up your candidate with his (not so well) hidden agendae.

Rudy is still worse than Hilly because she has, for all her waffling on various issues, consistently presented her politics for all to see. Rudy is trying to be a chameleon, to stealth into the nomination, and eventually into the presidency, so that he can then say "Oops, I changed my mind, when I was Mayor of NY, outlawing guns worked, so let's do it, etc, etc, etc."

Rudy thus becomes the worse of two evils, and once again, given that choice, I will vote for a third party candidate, or that Texas implement that clause in our Constitution, and your high handed misstatements that a vote for anyone other than Rudy is a vote for Hilly can go pound salt.

[frankie_the_yankee]

when you predict that the choice will be more favorable than Rudy vs. Hillary.

I do not see anywhere that I have made such a prediction.

How about this post?

Do you think it will be more favorable than Rudy vs. Hillary?

Yup.

If you meant something different by that, please explain. I missed it.

You must not have looked.

I don't see that as any kind of prediction, you asked a question, I answered,...

OK. So you think the choice will be better than Rudy vs. Hillary. I presume you are referring only to the major party candidates.

The original qestion was if anyone perceived Rudy as worse than Hilly, and I stated that I do, and for what reason.

OK.

You have since accused me of being for Hilly, which is not true, ...

Can you point out where I might have done this? If I did, it was not my intention.

I have merely pointed out that if someone fails to vote for the major party opponent of Hillary/Obama, the effect of that is if they had voted for Hillary/Obama, whether they are pro-Hillary/Obama or not.

...you have stated that you will vote for Rudy...

Yes, if he is the Republican nominee. I have also stated that he is not my 1st choice. My position is that I am going to vote for the major party opponent of Hillary/Obama in the general election no matter who it might be.

...and you berate anyone who even implies that someone else could be on the ticket.

I haven't intended to "berate" anyone. And I certainly have not berated anyone over the possibility that someone else could be on the ticket. Thompson, Huckabee, and Romney are all viable possibilities at this point. Even McCain seems to have a shot.

Again, Rudy is not my 1st choice. My intention is to examine what people might do in a "worst case scenario" - i.e. Hillary/Obama vs. Rudy.

You sound to me like just another Rudy carpetbagger trying to up your candidate with his (not so well) hidden agendae.

How many Rudy carpetbaggers describe his nomination as a "worst case scenario"?

Rudy is still worse than Hilly because she has, for all her waffling on various issues, consistently presented her politics for all to see. Rudy is trying to be a chameleon, to stealth into the nomination, and eventually into the presidency, so that he can then say "Oops, I changed my mind, when I was Mayor of NY, outlawing guns worked, so let's do it, etc, etc, etc."

The difference with Hillary/Obama is that they won't have to change their minds. They already hate private gun ownership and they are already wedded to picking "living constitution" judges.

Rudy thus becomes the worse of two evils, and once again, given that choice, I will vote for a third party candidate, or that Texas implement that clause in our Constitution, and your high handed misstatements that a vote for anyone other than Rudy is a vote for Hilly can go pound salt.

And no matter what I go and pound on, if you vote that way you are effectively voting for Hillary/Obama - like it or not. They will get elected, Texas will not secede, and our gun rights will be destroyed by Hillary/Obama's corps of federal judges.

[lawrnk]

I think he is worse.

[lawrnk]

Hillarys voting record is a nightmare
http://www.sportsmenforclinton.org/inde ... &Itemid=26

[NcongruNt]

Oof. What really gets me is that the media is already proclaiming the winner of the primaries before we're even close to the election. Even here, we seem to have already resigned ourselves to the fact that the election is going to be between Hillary and Rudy. I'm quickly losing faith in the people of this country, as it seems that the nation is letting its popular opinion be dictated by what the media's agenda focuses on. What happened to voting for the candidate we think will do the best job? We've been scared into voting for the most media-hyped candidate for fear that otherwise, whatever party we're affiliated with will lose!

If we keep running our country like this, we're not going to have any rights (gun or otherwise) left, just power-drunk rulers and subjects complacent to whatever the media feeds them. Elections are swiftly becoming nothing more than a contest of influence and power, rather than an expression of the will of the people.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd rather focus on the task at hand - the primaries. Our time would be much better spent discussing the merits of the candidates running for the primary elections. We'll have plenty of time in a couple of months to discuss the outcome and merits of the selected candidates then.

Let's start a thread about Giuliani vs. Huckabee vs. Hunter vs. McCain vs. Paul vs. Romney vs. Tancredo vs. Thompson and where they stand on the 2nd Ammendment and other contributing issues that affect our rights as gun owners and CHL holders. We could even have one for Biden vs. Clinton vs. Gravel vs. Dodd vs. Edwards vs. Kucinich vs. Obama vs. Richardson! Resigning ourselves to Clinton vs. Giuliani before the polls have even opened seems a little defeatist to me.

[seamusTX]

Resigning ourselves to Clinton vs. Giuliani before the polls have even opened seems a little defeatist to me.

Yeah. In 1999, McCain was the "sure bet" at this point in the process. In 2003, it was Howard Dean.

- Jim

[DoubleJ]

In 2003, it was Howard Dean.

- Jim

BYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!


oh, how things can change...