Negative issues facing Ron Paul's Candidacy

[lawrnk]

I've mentioned that Ron Paul has great ideas, but scares me. He is now considered the #1 candidate for 9/11 truthers. Soros is backing him, and arguably moveon.org will follow. Most anti-war protesters are supporting him. This is the start of his demise. I can not fathom a worse group of people to throw support behind him, except neo-nazis. Oops, scratch that, some of them are already supporting him (and he won't return their donations) Wanting to repeal the death penalty isn't making me too thrilled either.


http://kevinmccullough.townhall.com/blo ... 0629febfe3

[KBCraig]

I enjoy (and engage in) discussion of political politics, including the current presidential cycle. My signature makes it clear where I stand.

Rather than dismantling this blatantly false post bit-by-bit, I'll simply note that it is off topic and unrelated to Texas CHL, and asked that it be locked.

Kevin

[nitrogen]

Seconding lockage.

This should not be a forum for political debate unless it has to do with guns. I come here to talk about Texas CHL issues, and gun issues in general, not political issues. That's why I hardly visit Arfcom, TFL as well as THR. If that starts happening here, I'll have to find yet another place to discuss guns locally.

[longtooth]

One of the Mods will be along shortly.
Carlson1 where are you tonight.

[GrillKing]

I believe this thread should remain in play. It does (or could) relate to firearms topics, including CHL. Paul's website shows he is clearly pro RKBA. Why would George Soros support Ron Pual (If in fact he really does).

Perhaps by supporting Ron Paul, a candidate not likely to win the Republican nomination, it forces larger expenditures by all Republicans in the primaries, leaving less for the general election.

[KBCraig]

Okay, I've paused long enough that I think I can respond to these claims without violating forum rules. Since the thread is staying open, the accusations need to be addressed.

I've mentioned that Ron Paul has great ideas, but scares me. He is now considered the #1 candidate for 9/11 truthers.

And yet he does nothing to encourage them. He's said multiple times that he doesn't subscribe to the "9/11 was an inside job" nonsense.

Soros is backing him, and arguably moveon.org will follow.

Absolutely false. This apparently comes from Kevin McCullough's blog, which links to another blog, which links to a youtube video, which doesn't say anything at all about Soros or moveon. Nothing there except speculation and innuendo -- smear by implication, even though the idea of Soros supporting Ron Paul is ludicrous.

Most anti-war protesters are supporting him. This is the start of his demise.

He's the only candidate (other than Kucinich or Gravel) who promises to end the Iraq war. You expect them to line up behind Giuliani?

If you haven't noticed, 60-70% of Americans polled consistently report being opposed to the war in Iraq. I don't see that as much of a "demise" except among the warmongers.

I can not fathom a worse group of people to throw support behind him, except neo-nazis. Oops, scratch that, some of them are already supporting him (and he won't return their donations)

Just as with the 9/11 truthers, Ron Paul is not responsible for the views held by those who support him. Just because they support him, doesn't mean he supports them. I wonder what the neo-nazis think of Paul's praise for Muhammad Ali?

Return the money? Why? This is not like busboys at Chinese restaurants contributing sacks full of cash to Hillary Clinton. It's not even like Huckabee's Houston fund-raiser, held by a group of people who want to see Biblical commands enforced by law.

Anyone who contributes to Ron Paul knows one thing with certainty: you're not going to sway Paul's positions with money.

Wanting to repeal the death penalty isn't making me too thrilled either.

No idea where you got that one. Here's the truth:
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/articles/112 ... -measures/

[Liberty]

Ron Paul is running one of the interesting campaigns I've ever seen. Its a grass roots thing and most of his money is comming in under $25 incriments. Paul is not beholding to any main money source. The Attacks on Ron are only going to get worse. His honesty and determination threatan to expose the big government Mainstream Republicans for the money grubbing thieving fatherless sons that they really are. Ron Paul is the only candidate that has a record of attempting to make a smaller government. These acusations are silly because Ron Paul's platform is the same as it has been for years and is well documented. Just look it up in the constitution. He really hasn't varied from it.

What I don't understand is why the mainstream Republicans don't take him on his established issues instead of the lies and dirty tricks.

They won't address his stance on the war (I won't vote for him for this reason and this reason only) He doesn't believe that we should be killing the Islamic terrorist in either Iraq or Afghanastan.

They don't want to address his stance on abortion. (We don't want to get into it here.)

They don't want to address his lack of earmark funding in his district.

They don't want to address his lack of support for government programs like social security, and medicaide, Farm subsidies University grants etc.

Instead they drag up fake stuff and accusations. A lot of this seems to come from the Huckleberry camp, and recent revelations about where some of his money came from seems hypocritical. (Gene splicing & clone operations)

As I said I am not a Ron Paul supporter, because I want to kill the dogs before they kill us. I also believe that this war is constitutional and legal. The rumors and lies though are being spread because the mainstream politicians are afraid of him. Paul's message about smaller government is threating to almost any politician out there and it scares the daylights out of them because people are taking the message seriously. A smaller government means only one thing to them and that is less power. Even if Paul does gain the presidency there are a lot of voters buying into his ideas. Politics is almost solely about power, and Ron's libertarian ideas are is threat to that power.

[KBCraig]

They won't address his stance on the war (I won't vote for him for this reason and this reason only) He doesn't believe that we should be killing the Islamic terrorist in either Iraq or Afghanastan.

Correction: Ron Paul voted for and supports our operations in Afghanistan, because those operations are in pursuit of the 9/11 perpetrators. One point he often makes is that the Iraq operation has diverted money and resources away from the pursuit of bin Laden.

[frankie_the_yankee]

Paul's message about smaller government is threating to almost any politician out there.....

Ummm, sort of. But there's more to it than that. See below.

...... and it scares the daylights out of them because people are taking the message seriously.

I don't see where his political rivals are scared, nor do I see where any significant % of voters is taking his message seriously. His numbers hang in single digits for the most part.

That's why his rivals are not scared.

As for his message, I suspect that most people are not aware of most of the details.

He certainly is in favor of smaller government. Much smaller government. (I am too to some extent.) But the thing that many people overlook is that each and every federal agency, department, and program that he wants to drastically cut back or eliminate has its own constituency. Right or wrong, it's a fact. And each one of these constituencies (farmers, labor, business, teachers, you name it) consist of people who will vote against Paul because, if nothing else, he threatens their government meal ticket.

Add them all up and there are too many of them for Paul to make a serious run at the presidency, at least IMO.

His political rivals are well aware of all this. So they are not too worried about him being a threat.

As to the sources of all the various charges being levied against him, I couldn't say. But as far as I can tell, most of his opponents for the Republican nomination don't say much about him either way.

[KBCraig]

As I said I am not a Ron Paul supporter, because I want to kill the dogs before they kill us.

You mean these dogs?
"5. Is it not true that the intelligence community has been unable to develop a case tying Iraq to global terrorism at all, much less the attacks on the United States last year? Does anyone remember that 15 of the 19 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia and that none came from Iraq?"

Remember: Ron Paul supports going after terrorists who have attacked us. Invading countries who have not attacked against us --and who have no military ability to do so-- does nothing except add fuel to the terrorists' fire. By their way of thinking, we're "over there", so they're justified to attack us. And they're right: if they were "over here" in exactly the same way that we're "over there", their forces would be dying at an astounding rate.

[Liberty]

As I said I am not a Ron Paul supporter, because I want to kill the dogs before they kill us.

You mean these dogs?
"5. Is it not true that the intelligence community has been unable to develop a case tying Iraq to global terrorism at all, much less the attacks on the United States last year? Does anyone remember that 15 of the 19 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia and that none came from Iraq?"

Remember: Ron Paul supports going after terrorists who have attacked us. Invading countries who have not attacked against us --and who have no military ability to do so-- does nothing except add fuel to the terrorists' fire. By their way of thinking, we're "over there", so they're justified to attack us. And they're right: if they were "over here" in exactly the same way that we're "over there", their forces would be dying at an astounding rate.

One Moslem nation is the same as any other. They are all working to the destruction of the Western culture and Religion. Peace is an opportunity for them to gather strength enough to fight another day.

After World War 2 peace was maintained in in Japan and Europe not because the folks there suddenly loved us. but because we kept a strong military presence within those countrys. We one the cold war because we had a powerful military presence at the borders of the nation that wished to destroy us. Our goal in Iraq should be to destroy the enemy, and to build a powerful military presence, so that when the day comes we will be in position to fix the next shiekdom that needs fixing. We are the most powerful country in the world and with that comes a certain respocibility. Those Moslem nations have made it clear that they believe it is their duty to destroy those who stand in their way of a Moslem domminated world. It becomes our duty to either change their minds or make them go away. This isn't about tiny nation, we at the beggining of a new world war. We have only to choices . Concede to their desires that we become a submisive Moslem nation or an eventual conversion of the Moslem world. I have entered their world for a moment, and learned I don't won't their world infringing on mine. They have the stomach to take us on. We used to I hope we still do.

Now I am not a Ron Paul Basher I want him to do well. I agree with him on his fiscal and social issues. He is important and he will have an influence. We are starting to hear more libertarian arguements from our politicians even though they tend to forget once they get into office, but for right now we are in to much danger from those who want us dead to take a chance on him.

[lawrnk]

Seconding lockage.

This should not be a forum for political debate unless it has to do with guns. I come here to talk about Texas CHL issues, and gun issues in general, not political issues. That's why I hardly visit Arfcom, TFL as well as THR. If that starts happening here, I'll have to find yet another place to discuss guns locally.

Considering the policies of the president will affect out 2nd A rights, I disagree.

[lawrnk]

I agree with 95% of what Paul stands for (generally)

Frankly the only things about him I strongly oppose are his views on dealing with Islamic nations, and the death penalty.

Ron Paul is running one of the interesting campaigns I've ever seen. Its a grass roots thing and most of his money is comming in under $25 incriments. Paul is not beholding to any main money source. The Attacks on Ron are only going to get worse. His honesty and determination threatan to expose the big government Mainstream Republicans for the money grubbing thieving fatherless sons that they really are. Ron Paul is the only candidate that has a record of attempting to make a smaller government. These acusations are silly because Ron Paul's platform is the same as it has been for years and is well documented. Just look it up in the constitution. He really hasn't varied from it.

What I don't understand is why the mainstream Republicans don't take him on his established issues instead of the lies and dirty tricks.

They won't address his stance on the war (I won't vote for him for this reason and this reason only) He doesn't believe that we should be killing the Islamic terrorist in either Iraq or Afghanastan.

They don't want to address his stance on abortion. (We don't want to get into it here.)

They don't want to address his lack of earmark funding in his district.

They don't want to address his lack of support for government programs like social security, and medicaide, Farm subsidies University grants etc.

Instead they drag up fake stuff and accusations. A lot of this seems to come from the Huckleberry camp, and recent revelations about where some of his money came from seems hypocritical. (Gene splicing & clone operations)

As I said I am not a Ron Paul supporter, because I want to kill the dogs before they kill us. I also believe that this war is constitutional and legal. The rumors and lies though are being spread because the mainstream politicians are afraid of him. Paul's message about smaller government is threating to almost any politician out there and it scares the daylights out of them because people are taking the message seriously. A smaller government means only one thing to them and that is less power. Even if Paul does gain the presidency there are a lot of voters buying into his ideas. Politics is almost solely about power, and Ron's libertarian ideas are is threat to that power.

[lawrnk]

I enjoy (and engage in) discussion of political politics, including the current presidential cycle. My signature makes it clear where I stand.

Rather than dismantling this blatantly false post bit-by-bit, I'll simply note that it is off topic and unrelated to Texas CHL, and asked that it be locked.

Kevin

No, I do not agree with you on this. There are quite a few threads in the "Federal" section that are not CHL related but politics related instead.

I will however say that I have done a lot of research in Paul, and support him 95% and will vote for him come the primaries. There is not a single stance he has taken that I have seen that should have caused any "truthers" or neo-nazi's to support him.

I also support him not giving back the money donated by the nazi. Have you seen his response when the reporter was trying to side-swipe him with it, lawrnk? If you had, you would have agreed as well

Russell,

I do generally support Paul, I just think he is going to Perot the the vote. Do a google for any of the top 10 9/11 "truthers" forums. Paul support is rampant, as they love his kumbaya with Islam policy. I did see the reporter and his response on the donation. I don't think he is obligated to return it, but for a few hundred bucks...is it worth it? Hillary gave back almost a million!