How to prevent straw purchases?

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seamusTX
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How to prevent straw purchases?

#1

Post by seamusTX »

There is no doubt in my mind that some firearms purchased from gun stores in the U.S. are making their way to Mexico. BATFE has agents in Mexico who have traced the serial numbers of weapons confiscated from criminals there to U.S. gun stores. I believe that the U.S. agents are acting in good faith, in this matter.

This is not purely a Mexican problem. Mexican gangs are operating across the border and threatening U.S. Border Patrol agents and other innocent Americans.

I hardly need to repeat that the usual suspects in the federal government are going to use this issue to call for another "assault weapons ban" and other restrictions on law-abiding firearms owners in the U.S.

Of course, the original "assault weapons ban" of 1994 did nothing to reduce crime. Everyone who has looked at the history and statistics agrees on that.

A semi-auto rifle is a semi-auto rifle. It fires a round every time that the trigger is pulled. Its basic function is unaffected by whether it has a pistol grip, folding stock, flash hider, mounts for a grenade launcher, etc. Furthermore, these components are easily obtained and added after acquiring the weapon, whether doing so is legal or not.

Straw purchases are illegal, and AFIAK have been since 1968. Exporting firearms without a license is illegal. Transferring firearms across state lines without an FFL is illegal. Nevertheless, these activities continue.

Here is how I understand what is going on: Mexican criminals find a U.S. citizen or permanent resident who wants money and doesn't have much of a conscience. They give him cash to buy a weapon. He does so, and gives the weapon to them. They export it to Mexico through illegal channels made possible by corruption.

Every step of this process is a federal felony now.

It is difficult for U.S. authorities to investigate this activity. It is entirely legal to purchase a firearm with cash and sell it to someone else at any time afterward. No records of private sales are required in most states, including Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas.

Those in government who do not respect the right to keep and bear arms are not stupid. They have a plan that they hope will limit such activities. Some of the proposals on the table are
  • one purchase a month laws
  • requiring all private sales to go through an FFL
  • allowing BATFE or the FBI to question firearms purchasers about the location or disposition of the weapons that they purchased some time ago (as is already done with class III weapons)
  • requiring the reporting of theft or loss of a firearm, with criminal penalties for failing to do so
None of us wants to see these measures enacted into law.

I am appealing for those who are smarter and more imaginative than I to come up with a better solution.

Singling out buyers who have an accent or "look Mexican" is not the solution. Aside from being a violation of basic human rights, criminals can easily find straw purchasers who don't fit the profile (Anglo drug addicts who do not have a criminal record, for example).

Closing the border is not an option. Tons of freight and thousands of people and vehicles move in each direction every day. This traffic is an essential component of the U.S. economy.

- Jim
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BobCat
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Re: How to prevent straw purchases?

#2

Post by BobCat »

I'm certainly no smarter or creative than you are, but one thing that seems reasonable is to "throw the book at" anyone who gets caught after buying guns for illegal export.

In another thread, I read that they had arrested a guy who had bought many guns (on 4473s) for illegal export. Traced the serial numbers of guns "recovered" in Mexico to one guy here in Houston. He needs go go away for a long, long time - and it needs to be stated loud and clear that if you do straw purchases and get caught, you will not get off lightly. Maybe some deterrent in that.

What happens to a guy who buys beer for minors? If they catch him, he is in trouble. Same for tobacco. Both are legal substances, but it is illegal to buy them for minors.

Sorry, wish I had some better ideas, but I'm just stuck being vindictive.
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seamusTX
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Re: How to prevent straw purchases?

#3

Post by seamusTX »

These crimes are prosecuted with a high rate of conviction when the authorities can identify a violator. That person, regardless of how much time he spends in prison, can never again buy a firearm from an FFL.

The problem is that there are so many people who are desperate for money, there will always be fresh recruits.

- Jim
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ninemm
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Re: How to prevent straw purchases?

#4

Post by ninemm »

I know I'll probably get virtually crucified for this opinion but:

It seems like a statistical approach could be developed to determine "irregular" purchase patterns. Some might consider this an invasion of privacy or of 2nd Amendment rights. Sure, there are avid collectors but really, there is some point where the combination of handgun and assault rifles would warrant flagging someone.
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Re: How to prevent straw purchases?

#5

Post by seamusTX »

A person is required to have an FFL if he is engaged in the business of dealing in firearms. This area of federal law is vague and has never been clarified. That is why someone can buy a dozen rifles at a time and then later say that he resold them to people whose names he can't remember.

I have a feeling that this law is ripe for revision, leading to the one-gun-a-month rule that I have mentioned.

I am philosophically opposed to this kind of thing; but if it is the worst that will be done, I think it is an acceptable compromise. It would have to include an exception for sets of matched firearms and other collectors' items (which generally sell for much more than the market value of generic equivalents).

Criminals can still beat the system by recruiting more straw buyers and scheduling their purchases. However, the number of recruits increases the chance of their being detected by law enforcement.

I repeat, I do not like this. I do not want to see it happen, but the pressure is on for Somebody To Do Something. We need to figure out the least damaging Something to make the problem go away.

- Jim
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Oldgringo
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Re: How to prevent straw purchases?

#6

Post by Oldgringo »

seamusTX wrote:A person is required to have an FFL if he is engaged in the business of dealing in firearms. This area of federal law is vague and has never been clarified. That is why someone can buy a dozen rifles at a time and then later say that he resold them to people whose names he can't remember.

I have a feeling that this law is ripe for revision, leading to the one-gun-a-month rule that I have mentioned.

I am philosophically opposed to this kind of thing; but if it is the worst that will be done, I think it is an acceptable compromise. It would have to include an exception for sets of matched firearms and other collectors' items (which generally sell for much more than the market value of generic equivalents).

Criminals can still beat the system by recruiting more straw buyers and scheduling their purchases. However, the number of recruits increases the chance of their being detected by law enforcement.

I repeat, I do not like this. I do not want to see it happen, but the pressure is on for Somebody To Do Something. We need to figure out the least damaging Something to make the problem go away.

- Jim
You said it so much better than I. WE need to do something before THEY do something. Who needs more than one gun a month except maybe a FFL dealer?
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Re: How to prevent straw purchases?

#7

Post by quidni »

Who needs more than one gun a month except maybe a FFL dealer?
Unfortunately, this sounds a lot like "Who needs an assault rifle for hunting?"
or
"Who needs more than one box of ammo at a time?"

So-called "reasonable restrictions" have been known to lead to unreasonable prohibitions, one minor encroachment at a time.

Agreed, WE need to do something before THEY do something, but adding more restrictions isn't the answer. We need a way to enforce the laws that are already on the books... and hold people responsible for the consequences of their actions. Something that isn't really popular in the gimme-culture of today.
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Re: How to prevent straw purchases?

#8

Post by boomerang »

There are two ways to eliminate straw purchases.
  1. Ban all firearm sales. If nobody can purchase then there are no straw purchases.
  2. Repeal all federal gun laws. If there are no restrictions on purchases then there are no straw purchases.
Nothing else can prevent straw purchases. They may be able to reduce straw purchases for guns by treating them the same as straw purchases for alcohol like someone suggested. Run stings on stores. Run stings to catch the straw purchasers. Run stings to catch the illegal exporters. Prosecute vigorously.

That may reduce straw purchases in America but it won't make much difference in Mexico. The Mexican drug gangs and the various rebel groups get most of their weapons from government sources through force or bribes or collaborators. Plugging the straw purchase hole in America will have as little effect in Mexico as a little Dutch boy in New Orleans on 8/29/2005.
Last edited by boomerang on Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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seamusTX
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Re: How to prevent straw purchases?

#9

Post by seamusTX »

Thanks, Oldgringo. I would much rather see the NRA and its supporters in Congress propose legislation than the usual suspects.

The problem with the one-gun-a-month rule is that someone has to keep track of purchases.

At present, NICS queries are supposed to be purged after three days. In order to enforce a one-gun-a-month rule, they would have to be preserved for at least a month. It's not a big stretch for them to be preserved indefinitely, creating a de facto registration system.

I haven't made my mind up one way or the other about these issues. I'm just thinking out loud here.

- Jim
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seamusTX
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Re: How to prevent straw purchases?

#10

Post by seamusTX »

boomerang wrote:That may reduce straw purchases in America but it won't make much difference in Mexico. The Mexican drug gangs and the various rebel groups get most of their weapons from government sources through force or bribes or collaborators.
I agree. There are also governments in Latin America (which will remain unnamed) that have an interest in destabilizing the region. Governments can buy weapons of war on the world market and dispose of them as they wish. Perhaps the Secretary of State should look into that problem.

However, we have a political problem here and now that we need confront.

- Jim
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Re: How to prevent straw purchases?

#11

Post by boomerang »

seamusTX wrote:However, we have a political problem here and now that we need confront.
It's already illegal. Vigorously enforce the existing law. Maybe the Treasury Secretary can order the BATFE compliance guys to focus on this problem instead of minor violations like someone writing "TX" instead of "Texas" on a 4473.
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Re: How to prevent straw purchases?

#12

Post by Mike1951 »

They are distributing material intended to inform.

http://www.atf.gov/field/dontlie_post-card.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Related website: http://www.dontlie.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: How to prevent straw purchases?

#13

Post by wheelgun1958 »

Image

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Re: How to prevent straw purchases?

#14

Post by stroo »

While we may need to propose something, that something should be better information and better enforcement of current laws, not more laws.
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Re: How to prevent straw purchases?

#15

Post by boomerang »

wheelgun1958 wrote:Image
Image
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