TexasCHLforum.com

Didn't want to add on to the already good and lengthy discussion of the lawsuit over post office firearms restrictions here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=39927&hilit=post+office" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... so thought I'd start a new but related topic based on a big story today from Washington DC.


US Postal Service is out of money and time and will soon be closing 3700 post offices nationwide. Details in story link:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But THIS (below) is what caught my eye:

About 2,500 of the 3,654 sites targeted for possible closure will be replaced by a clerk in a local store, gas station, library or town hall in a new business model the Postal Service describes as a “Village Post Office.”

Raises the obvious question of whether the entire "local store, gas station, library, or town hall" becomes a Federal "gun-free zone"

I sure hope the NRA will fight against this tooth and nail.

Discuss ...

It takes a village to raise a postal employee

It would not be USPS or federal property. Therefore it could not legally be made off-limits.

On top of that, you're talking about a convenience store or pack-and-ship type of place. They do not have metal detectors or guards at the doors (neither does the real Post Office for that matter).

If it's a city hall or similar government facility in Texas, it could not be made off-limits unless it was already statutorily off-limits, as with a courthouse.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:It would not be USPS or federal property. Therefore it could not legally be made off-limits.

USPS property was made off-limits by a USPS decree IIRC. They could do the same thing at a Wal-Mart kiosk.
Tape on the floor ala Nes Nesmond?

Rex B wrote:

seamusTX wrote:It would not be USPS or federal property. Therefore it could not legally be made off-limits.

USPS property was made off-limits by a USPS decree IIRC. They could do the same thing at a Wal-Mart kiosk.
Tape on the floor ala Nes Nesmond?

This type of scenario is what I was thinking. At what point does the "kiosk" or whatever become USPS "property"? This is different than a pack-n-ship type of store that is a private business with private employees and only "accepts" USPS items that are then picked up or somehow delivered to an actual USPS employee. These "village POs" or "kiosks" or whatever would apparently be staffed by USPS employees and the question is whether they would also be Federal property.

seamusTX wrote:If it's a city hall or similar government facility in Texas, it could not be made off-limits unless it was already statutorily off-limits, as with a courthouse.

could not be made off-limits under TEXAS law, but wouldn't Federal law trump Texas law? If the Feds own/lease the property doesn't Federal law trump all other concerns? I dunno - I'm asking.

The authority of the USPS to control weapons (if in fact they actually have such authority) is set by 39 C.F.R. § 232. This says, "This section applies to all real property under the charge and control of the Postal Service, ..."

A convenience store or other retail establishment is not real property under the charge and control of the Postal Service. It is a contractor. Incidentally, these arrangements have been in place for years. I remember my college having a little "post office" cranny in the student union in the 1970s.

Some people would like to claim that every facility that receives any federal government funding can be regulated by the feds. This would be great if you wanted to set up a situation similar to the USSR. However, it can and should be fought when attempted.

Does anyone really think the feds should be able to tell people who receive Social Security what to eat and wear? Because that is the ultimate implication of such a policy.

- Jim

Fox news has this about UPS buying closed Post offices.
http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/4476828/ ... st-office/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I remembered the link this time and it's valid.

A-R wrote:could not be made off-limits under TEXAS law, but wouldn't Federal law trump Texas law? If the Feds own/lease the property doesn't Federal law trump all other concerns? I dunno - I'm asking.

I say no.

The USPS does not own or lease the property, and the person working it is not a federal or USPS employee. Going back to my school example, the person working there was an employee of the school. She spent maybe 5% of her time sorting mail and selling stamps.

Why do people insist on creating imaginary powers for the government that the government itself doesn't try to create?

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:

A-R wrote:could not be made off-limits under TEXAS law, but wouldn't Federal law trump Texas law? If the Feds own/lease the property doesn't Federal law trump all other concerns? I dunno - I'm asking.

I say no.

The USPS does not own or lease the property, and the person working it is not a federal or USPS employee.

If they are given space in a retail establishment, don't you think they will lease that space?
Don't you think the Postmaster of that small-town PO would be still on the payroll, working the kiosk?

No and no.

The USPS is going to contract mostly with private operators to handle mail as a small part of their business.

From what I see on my rare trips to the post office, most of what their employees do is sell stamps and accept packages for shipping. I would not have to go there except that no one else currently sells stamps by the hundreds. Other functions that post offices traditionally had, like taking in passport applications, are spread around differently now.

I don't know how postmasters are assigned. There used to be one per ZIP code in rural and suburban areas. I think there might be one per major city that has multiple ZIP codes.

The Washington Post article said thousands of employees would be laid off—not assigned to work in leased spaces. Employees are the biggest expense of the USPS (not real estate, which they already own and don't pay taxes on).

- Jim

What about the PO Boxes?

Rex B wrote:What about the PO Boxes?

There are PO boxes at some of the remote locations now. Even so, most of them at regular offices are just loaded by the folks in the back that are sorting mail for the drivers anyway, so that is no problem. And, those areas are still open even when the desk is closed.

Remote P.O. box kiosks are fairly common. I think, though I don't know for sure, that the USPS will not deliver to houses that are on privately owned streets. They just have an unmanned kiosk at the entrance to the subdivision.

Some private pack-and-ship places have mail drops also. However, those have acquired a bad reputation due to their use by eBay scammers and other dishonest people.

Here is the actual announcement from USPS:
http://about.usps.com/news/national-rel ... 11_089.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Village Post Offices would be operated by local businesses, such as pharmacies, grocery stores and other appropriate retailers, and would offer popular postal products and services such as stamps and flat-rate packaging.

“By working with third-party retailers, we’re creating easier, more convenient access to our products and services when and where our customers want them,” Donahoe said. “The Village Post Office will offer another way for us to meet our customers’ needs.”

This is pretty much a minor expansion of Kroger and Randall's selling stamps.

- Jim

It's more than an expansion of businesses selling stamps. The USPS already has many contract postal units (CPU) located in private businesses that perform many functions and are operated by a contractor.