Page 1 of 4
HB 822 Passes Hurdles
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:31 am
by Liberty
House Bill 822 is the newest incarnation of the national CHL reciprocity
has cleared its first hurdle.
HR 822, the National Right-To-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2011, passed a hurdle today when the House approved H. Res. 463 by a vote of 271 to 153. House Resolution 463 provides the rule under which the debate will be conducted, any amendments that can be considered, and other procedural issues. All bills have a rule before they are considered for final passage.
Rule provides for consideration of H.R. 822 with 1 hour of general debate. Previous question shall be considered as ordered without intervening motions except motion to recommit with or without instructions. Measure will be considered read. Specified amendments are in order. The resolution waives all points of order against the committee amendment in the nature of a substitute, now printed in the bill. The resolution waives all points of order against the amendments printed in the report.
There were a number of Democrats who voted for H.Res. 463 along with all the Republicans that were present. There were no Republicans who opposed this resolution.
In the Rules Committee, they voted 8-3 along party lines not to allow an "open rule" for HR 822. An open rule would have allowed amendments to be offered from the floor of the House. By not approving an open rule, the Rules Committee made sure that opponents could not keep proposing an endless number of amendments in order to delay the bill. Moreover, it also means that the bill will be clean without the proposed amendment from some Illinois reps which would have allowed concealed carry in both D.C. and Illinois which do not currently have concealed carry.
This bill has been getting a lot of attention from the NRA, and will help a lot of us who are forced to visit or travel through unfriendly states.
Re: HB 822 Passes Hurdles
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:53 am
by Jumping Frog
I see the CongressWOOOOOOOOMMMMAAAAANNNNN Sheila Jackson Lee from the "vunnables" district of Houston is up to her usual idiocy.
SUMMARY OF AMENDMENTS
4. Jackson Lee (TX): Would require a state to create a comprehensive database that would contain all permits and licenses issued by the State for carrying a concealed weapon and would make this comprehensive database available to law enforcement officers from all states 24 hours a day. (10 minutes)
8. Jackson Lee (TX): Would require a person provide at least 24 hours notice to a law enforcement officer of the State of the intention to possess or carry a concealed handgun in the State (10 minutes)
Here is a complete list of the 10 proposed amendments:
http://onlygunsandmoney.blogspot.com/20 ... urdle.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
SUMMARY OF AMENDMENTS MADE IN ORDER
1. Woodall (GA): Would protect the rights of states that already have reciprocal agreements in place for the concealed carry of firearms to continue enforcing those preexisting agreements. (10 minutes)
2. McCarthy, Carolyn (NY): Would specify that the legislation can only go into effect in states that have passed legislation enacting the bill. (10 minutes)
3. Hastings, Alcee (FL): Would exempt states from issuing a carry permit on the basis of state reciprocity which do not require individuals to apply for and complete a carry permit application at their local law enforcement station. (10 minutes)
4. Jackson Lee (TX): Would require a state to create a comprehensive database that would contain all permits and licenses issued by the State for carrying a concealed weapon and would make this comprehensive database available to law enforcement officers from all states 24 hours a day. (10 minutes)
5. Conyers (MI): Would preserve state laws with respect to eligibility for concealed-carry. (10 minutes)
6. Johnson, Hank (GA): Would require the possession or carrying of a concealed handgun in a state to be subject to that state's law regarding concealed carry in regards to firearm safety training that includes live-fire exercise. (10 minutes)
7. Cohen (TN): Would exempt from the bill any State law requiring a person to be at least 21 years of age to possess or carry a concealed handgun. (10 minutes)
8. Jackson Lee (TX): Would require a person provide at least 24 hours notice to a law enforcement officer of the State of the intention to possess or carry a concealed handgun in the State (10 minutes)
9. Cicilline (RI): Would limit the bill from taking effect in a state until the State Attorney General, head of the State police, and the Secretary of State have jointly certified that the other state's carry laws are substantially similar to its own licensing or permitting requirements. (10 minutes)
10. Reichert (WA): Would require a GAO study on the ability of state and local law enforcement authorities to verify the validity of out-of-state concealed firearms permits. (10 minutes)
The above is why my contact to my Rep. stressed passing the bill
without amendment.
Re: HB 822 Passes Hurdles
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:14 am
by psijac
I live just outside of jackson lee's diatrict I heard gun fire last night ar around 12:00 for the second night this week. I asked my brother if he heard any shots and he says, "no more than usual"
Re: HB 822 Passes Hurdles
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:49 am
by RoyGBiv
It'll need 290 House votes to override the Presidents likely (understatement?) veto.
1. How many of those 271 Yea's would also vote for an override?
2. How many more Dem's could be swayed to vote for an override?
3. And this vote was just to confirm the debate "Rule" to be applied... it was not a vote for/against the legislation itself.
Looks like the House will debate the bill/amendments live on C-Span starting at Noon today...
This bill may not be the first thing on the agenda however...
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/302722-2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I hope this passes... but.. I'm not holding my breath.
Re: HB 822 Passes Hurdles
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:09 am
by psijac
RoyGBiv wrote:It'll need 290 House votes to override the Presidents likely (understatement?) veto.
1. How many of those 271 Yea's would also vote for an override?
2. How many more Dem's could be swayed to vote for an override?
3. And this vote was just to confirm the debate "Rule" to be applied... it was not a vote for/against the legislation itself.
Looks like the House will debate the bill/amendments live on C-Span starting at Noon today...
This bill may not be the first thing on the agenda however...
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/302722-2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I hope this passes... but.. I'm not holding my breath.
I am more worried that it will pass. Amendments could make it a powerful Trojan Horse for anti-gun policies
Re: HB 822 Passes Hurdles
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:53 am
by RoyGBiv
psijac wrote:RoyGBiv wrote:It'll need 290 House votes to override the Presidents likely (understatement?) veto.
1. How many of those 271 Yea's would also vote for an override?
2. How many more Dem's could be swayed to vote for an override?
3. And this vote was just to confirm the debate "Rule" to be applied... it was not a vote for/against the legislation itself.
Looks like the House will debate the bill/amendments live on C-Span starting at Noon today...
This bill may not be the first thing on the agenda however...
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/302722-2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I hope this passes... but.. I'm not holding my breath.
I am more worried that it will pass. Amendments could make it a powerful Trojan Horse for anti-gun policies
Reading the proposed amendments here (
http://www.gop.gov/bill/112/1/hr822" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) leads me to conclude that there is no worry of a Trojan in this bill. However, it is possible, if all these amendments passed, that the bill would be worthless.
Remember, House Resolution 463 (the one that passed on yesterday's vote referenced by the OP) closes this bill to endless amendments... The amendments listed on the GOP web site should be all that gets debated. Further, since the bill has so many cosponsors and 463 passed by such a wide margin, getting any of these listed amendments tacked onto the final 822 bill will be difficult (nothing is impossible
)
So far, so good.... But... Can we get the veto overridden?
Re: HB 822 Passes Hurdles
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:53 pm
by ELB
Passed the House with one amendment, to do a study ($$ down the rathole
).
http://www.pagunblog.com/2011/11/16/fin ... -on-hr822/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yea: 272, Nay: 154
44 Democrats Voted in Favor
7 Republicans Voted Against
Re: HB 822 Passes Hurdles
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:54 pm
by JJVP
RoyGBiv wrote:psijac wrote:RoyGBiv wrote:It'll need 290 House votes to override the Presidents likely (understatement?) veto.
1. How many of those 271 Yea's would also vote for an override?
2. How many more Dem's could be swayed to vote for an override?
3. And this vote was just to confirm the debate "Rule" to be applied... it was not a vote for/against the legislation itself.
Looks like the House will debate the bill/amendments live on C-Span starting at Noon today...
This bill may not be the first thing on the agenda however...
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/302722-2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I hope this passes... but.. I'm not holding my breath.
I am more worried that it will pass. Amendments could make it a powerful Trojan Horse for anti-gun policies
Reading the proposed amendments here (
http://www.gop.gov/bill/112/1/hr822" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) leads me to conclude that there is no worry of a Trojan in this bill. However, it is possible, if all these amendments passed, that the bill would be worthless.
Remember, House Resolution 463 (the one that passed on yesterday's vote referenced by the OP) closes this bill to endless amendments... The amendments listed on the GOP web site should be all that gets debated. Further, since the bill has so many cosponsors and 463 passed by such a wide margin, getting any of these listed amendments tacked onto the final 822 bill will be difficult (nothing is impossible
)
So far, so good.... But... Can we get the veto overridden?
Bill passed. Looks like all amendments were defeated, except no 10.
Re: HB 822 Passes Hurdles
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:55 pm
by i8godzilla
Getting it through the House is not the issue. Will Reid even let it get to a vote in the Senate?
As I stated in a previous thread about this issue. I am against Federal Legislation in this arena. What the Feds give the Feds can take back with interest! This is a State's Rights Issue not a Federal Issue. I believe states like NY, NJ, IL, HI, and MD will pass laws that will make it easier to convict CHL holders on other perifieral charges. I think that an otherwise law-abiding citizen will get lured in to a sense of security with their own state's laws that they will be unaware that they are committing a felony in the state they are visiting. How about for starters, hollow point ammunition and magazine capacity.
As an example of reciprocity, let's take the driver's license and vehicle insurance. Minimum coverage in one state does not mean that you meet the minimum requirements in another state. Eons ago I remember a friend in FL that got a ticket in MD because his FL insurance did not meet the requirements in MD. I got stopped in NJ because my truck and travel trailer exceed 60'. NJ is the only state I know of that has this restriction and I was unaware at the time. (Only got a warning because I promised not to get off of I95 and took a different route on the return trip.)
I want less Federal legislation not more! Practically every bill the Congress passes takes a little bit of our liberty away.
Re: HB 822 Passes Hurdles
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:00 pm
by ELB
I did not have the fortitude to watch the debate directly, I read Sebastian's blogging of it instead
http://www.pagunblog.com/2011/11/16/hr8 ... -blogging/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Texas's Jackson-Lee (Deranged, 18th Dist) apparently was at her raving "best" during debate.
Here is how the amendments went:
http://www.pagunblog.com/2011/11/16/vot ... mendments/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: HB 822 Passes Hurdles
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:10 pm
by ELB
i8godzilla wrote: .... I am against Federal Legislation in this arena. ...
Too bad. Federal legislation in this area is vast and like it or not
constitutional per many previous SCOTUS decisions. Anything you are afraid of the Feds taking back with "interest" they can already do without paying any "principal." Refusing to use federal legislation to enhance the 2A simply establishes the principle that federal legislation can only be used to diminish the 2A, never to expand it.
If the courts and the congress ever reverse course on the scope of the Commerce Clauses, I will be happy to flush "national reciprocity" down the toilet along with the GCA of 68, the NFA, the ATF, and all the rest of it. But until then we should not cede the battlefield.
This particular bill is not likely to get past Obama, unfortunately, but it is useful in staking out positions for 2012.
Re: HB 822 Passes Hurdles
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:44 pm
by Oldgringo
Jackson Lee don't want no law that would require her constituents to have no license no way. If nobody has no license, we all be equal.
PS:
I vaguely remember meeting her at some function during the construction of Enron Field. I expect she doesn't remember meeting me.
Re: HB 822 Passes Hurdles
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:48 pm
by PBratton
Oldgringo wrote:Jackson Lee don't want no law that would require her constituents to have no license no way. If nobody has no license, we all be equal.
PS:
I vaguely remember meeting her at some function during the construction of Enron Field. I expect she doesn't remember meeting me.
Of course she wouldn't remember you... But she remembers the Michael Jackson funeral... I wonder who paid for that trip?
Re: HB 822 Passes Hurdles
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:28 pm
by ELB
Borrowing from Sebastian's blog again:
Republicans voting Nay:
Amash (R-MI) (NRA notes that he said he would vote for it when he was running for election in 2010).
Dold (R-IL)
Grimm (R-NY)
King (R-NY)
Lungren (R-CA)
Turner (R-NY)
Woodall (R-GA)
Didn't vote:
Bachmann (R, MN)
Gardner (R, CO)
Giffords (D, AZ)
Kaptur (D, OH)
Paul (R, TX)
Schmidt (R, OH)
Shimkus (R, IL)
Henry Cuellar, who is a Texas Dem (and currently my rep), voted Yea. Don't know the other Dems well enough to know who is from TX or wherever.
Full accounting here:
http://clerk.house.gov/floorsummary/floor.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Democrats' names are in italics.
Whoops - if you go to the link for the clerk of the house, you have to scroll down to "5:49:58 P.M. H.R. 822" and find "Roll no. 852" which will be a blue link. Click on it and it will display the vote on HR 822.
OK, edit #2: Better link to recorded vote:
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2011/roll852.xml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: HB 822 Passes Hurdles
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:44 pm
by psijac
That would have been a powerful message if we could have gotten a yes vote from giffords. God's speed in her recovery