Allow firearms on ACE turf?

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Allow firearms on ACE turf?

Postby ELB » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:57 pm

via the NRA on FaceBook:

http://boozman.senate.gov/public/index. ... 1619c0c0db

WASHINGTON D.C. - U.S. Senator John Boozman filed an amendment Monday that would prohibit the Secretary of the Army from enforcing any regulation that keeps an individual from possessing firearms on Army Corps of Engineer Water Resource Development projects or facilities.

"This amendment would make gun regulations consistent across all federal recreational lands,” Boozman said. “Law abiding gun owners deserve to defend themselves on federal lands while enjoying the outdoors.”
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____________
"The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected to service in a militia, ..." D.C v. Heller, Majority Opinion.
"Surely it protects a right that can be enforced by individuals." D.C. v Heller, Dissenting Opinion.
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Re: Allow firearms on ACE turf?

Postby Oldgringo » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:01 pm

Go get 'em, John! :rules:
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Re: Allow firearms on ACE turf?

Postby SATX-Scrub » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:02 pm

This would be a welcome sight! Keep us posted.
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Re: Allow firearms on ACE turf?

Postby SRH78 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:12 am

:clapping: :clapping:
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Re: Allow firearms on ACE turf?

Postby Oldgringo » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:36 am

If one branch of the government cannot coordinate with other branches of the the same government, this is blindingly clear proof that we have too much government.

Eliminate the departments and sever the employees. IOW, level the playing/voting field.
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Re: Allow firearms on ACE turf?

Postby RPB » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:29 am

Hope that goes well,

------------------------------
viewtopic.php?f=110&t=44851&p=577690&hilit=usace+enforce#p577682
Federal Level
US Army Corps of Engineers Lakes

JKTex wrote:I'm bumping this one back up to see if I can get some expert legal advice. :lol: Ok, not legal advice, but an explanation that makes sense.

I am a boater, and I'll leave it at that. ;-)

4) Bottom line, is firearm possession prohibited on Corp lakes?


not yet legal, but if/after H.R. 1865 becomes law, then it will be legal.. First, committee, then House vote, then Senate still has to hear it, and get signed into law first

Status:

Occurred: Introduced May 12, 2011
Occurred: Referred to Committee View Committee Assignments
Not Yet Occurred: Reported by Committee ...
Not Yet Occurred: House Vote ...
Not Yet Occurred: Senate Vote ...
Not Yet Occurred: Signed by President ...


Here's status page http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-1865


========================
Meanwhile, there was an amendment to a bill H.R. 2354( to not fund enforcement for ONE YEAR.... but as far as I know, that isn't "law" yet ... Senate hasn't voted on it yet



Here's Status page on that bill
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-2354

Status:

Occurred: Introduced Jun 24, 2011
Occurred: Referred to Committee View Committee Assignments
Occurred: Reported by Committee Jun 24, 2011
Occurred: Amendments (82 proposed) View Amendments
Occurred: Passed House Jul 15, 2011
Not Yet Occurred: Senate Vote ...
Not Yet Occurred: Signed by President ...


The amendment to H.R. 2354, the Energy and Water Development Appropriations Bill,
House Approves Altmire Amendment to Restrict Funds for Gun Enforcement on Army Corps Land PDF Print E-mail

July 14, 2011

http://altmire.house.gov/index.php?opti ... d&catid=21

I will continue to work to overturn this regulation, but, for now, defunding its enforcement is an excellent first step."


==========
Analogy: Just because I don't see a Policeman at the Stop Sign. or if Police agency has no funds to pay officers so they are all on strike, , doesn't mean I can run the Stop sign; it's still illegal.... I have never seen Federal Officers in the "Gun Free School Zones" to enforce that law ...

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets ... &issue=003

viewtopic.php?f=94&t=46711&hilit=corps

Rep Bob Gibbs @RepBobGibbs @Bob_Gibbs H.R. 1865, Recreational Lands Self-Defense Act http://gibbs.house.gov/press-release/co ... efense-act

Rep Bob Gibbs H.R. 1865, Recreational Lands Self-Defense Act http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7800 http://therightofthepeople.org/h-r-1865 ... duced.html


===============================
State of Texas Level ...
SCR32

Assuming you mean http://www.legis.state.tx.us/BillLookup ... Bill=SCR32
Caption Text: Expressing opposition to federal regulation of intrastate water resources.
Looks like it's a statement telling Feds that we are unhappy with them... a nasty note of displeasure which did nothing when Legislature ended


Bottom line
As of now, it is still illegal on USACE lakes/reservoirs etc, and they are still funded to enforce it, until something changes at the Federal Level.


Also see viewtopic.php?f=94&t=46711&p=570809&hilit=+usace+funding#p570168
USACE-House votes to allow firearms on lands managed by Army
I'm no lawyer

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Re: Allow firearms on ACE turf?

Postby chasfm11 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:51 am

I really, really want to see something like this pass. Of course, just because it becomes law is no reason that it will actually be heeded since there is ample evidence that the Federal entities are not following other laws (Example: Fast and Furious).

ACE controls a large number of RV parks in Texas and other places because they are near ACE controlled lakes. We like the ACE park at Lake Whitney better than the TPW State park but even there, I suspect that the ACE rules trump the State rules regarding guns. There is no way that I'm camping someplace that I cannot defend myself.
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Re: Allow firearms on ACE turf?

Postby philip964 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:57 am

Oldgringo wrote:If one branch of the government cannot coordinate with other branches of the the same government, this is blindingly clear proof that we have too much government.

Eliminate the departments and sever the employees. IOW, level the playing/voting field.


I'm watching a NOVA documentary on Netflix right now where the NSA refuses to share information with the CIA and the FBI on the 911 terrorists before 911. And they were specifically asking for the information.
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Re: Allow firearms on ACE turf?

Postby RPB » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:57 am

Passing the proper Federal laws removing/rescinding the restrictions on our rights would be the best way

Alternatively this could get interesting
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Re: Allow firearms on ACE turf?

Postby MadMonkey » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:04 pm

I'm a fan. My RC club is on ACE land in Grapevine :cheers2:
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Re: Allow firearms on ACE turf?

Postby rp_photo » Tue May 08, 2012 9:03 am

Unarmed rangers + unarmed visitors = great situation for bad guys, not to mention agressive wildlife such as feral hogs. One would think that the Army would understand that.
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Re: Allow firearms on ACE turf?

Postby RPB » Tue May 08, 2012 9:21 am

rp_photo wrote:Unarmed rangers + unarmed visitors = great situation for bad guys, not to mention agressive wildlife such as feral hogs. One would think that the Army would understand that.

I would like to visit this lake, but even though "they picked up litter and it's a nicer safer place now where people "FEEL" safe ... I won't yet, not until I'm welcome and treated as a responsible adult who would be allowed to defend himself. Until then, I refuse to give any money (except that I give through taxes and TPWD help in stocking the lakes where I am not welcome to visit armed)
http://www.google.com/search?q=lake+wac ... =firefox-a
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Re: Allow firearms on ACE turf?

Postby chasfm11 » Tue May 08, 2012 1:11 pm

rp_photo wrote:Unarmed rangers + unarmed visitors = great situation for bad guys, not to mention agressive wildlife such as feral hogs. One would think that the Army would understand that.


The Army completely understands that....and doesn't care.

I personally met the Colonel who was the head of the Ft. Worth District COE over a problem with the monopoly marina franchise on Lake Grapevine. That franchisee attempted to prevent any of us from complaining about his company by sending us threatening letters about possible lawsuits against us for "tort interference in a contract." (the public contract that he had with the COE).

The Colonel was quick to point out that his primary mission was flood control and secondarily, he worked with the city governments regarding water supply. Recreational use of the lakes was not his concern and, in so many words, he made it clear that I should be grateful for whatever I got in that regard. He didn't say the words "if you don't like it, move somewhere else." but they were clearly implied in the words that he did use. So I risked legal action against me for absolutely no possibility of any gain. Generally, the COE would be very happy if the recreational public would just go away.

Unless and until we get our Congress critters to pass legislation to make things different, the COE will continue just as they are.
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Re: Allow firearms on ACE turf?

Postby Keith B » Tue May 08, 2012 1:24 pm

chasfm11 wrote:
rp_photo wrote:Unarmed rangers + unarmed visitors = great situation for bad guys, not to mention agressive wildlife such as feral hogs. One would think that the Army would understand that.


The Army completely understands that....and doesn't care.

I personally met the Colonel who was the head of the Ft. Worth District COE over a problem with the monopoly marina franchise on Lake Grapevine. That franchisee attempted to prevent any of us from complaining about his company by sending us threatening letters about possible lawsuits against us for "tort interference in a contract." (the public contract that he had with the COE).

The Colonel was quick to point out that his primary mission was flood control and secondarily, he worked with the city governments regarding water supply. Recreational use of the lakes was not his concern and, in so many words, he made it clear that I should be grateful for whatever I got in that regard. He didn't say the words "if you don't like it, move somewhere else." but they were clearly implied in the words that he did use. So I risked legal action against me for absolutely no possibility of any gain. Generally, the COE would be very happy if the recreational public would just go away.

Unless and until we get our Congress critters to pass legislation to make things different, the COE will continue just as they are.


ACOE has always been this way. I grew up 10 miles from a COE lake and it has been the same story for my 52 years. They are only concerned with the flood control and management of the lake to ensure that. I have known many of the head Rangers and ACOE people over the years and almost all of them will tell you they would like nothing better than to shut down all recreational aspects of the lakes, including boating, camping and private residences along the shore as they don't like dealing with this portion of it. Most of them were actual engineers or fish and wildlife majors in school, so they have no interest at all in anything that deals with the general public and can become controversial. The lake I grew up near was really big for fishing, and the Corps would not even try to keep the lake level steady to help out the fish biting, claiming the flood control aspect. Sometimes I think they jockeyed the level just to make the fishing poor hoping it would discourage people from coming to the lake.
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