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VMI77 wrote:There is another aspect of registration under the NFA we haven't been discussing: you give up your 4th Amendment right against search and seizure. Registration under the NFA allows the BATF to enter your home to inspect your registered devices anytime they please.

That is not true. As an NFA owner, I speak from experience and knowledge. Also see:

http://www.recguns.com/Sources/IIF1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They still have to have a warrant and reasonable articulate suspicion to justify requesting access to your home.

Not "anytime they please".

Even Title II/Class 3 dealers are given notice before having their premises inspected for compliance - (Correction, FFL/SOT/Class 3 Dealers CAN be subject to inspection without notice DURING regular business hours).

As a Form 4 NFA owner, you do NOT have to give up your 4th Amendment rights - at least not yet.

Regards,
James

Maybe I shouldn't be, but I'm disappointed by the people who were fine with NFA infringements, as long is it applied to other people's guns. Now that there's a proposal to subject their guns to the same rules, they scream about constitutionality and principles. When in fact, the principles won't change, only the types of guns.

I would have a lot more respect if they stopped pretending to stand on principle and simply admitted their motives are selfish, now that NFA might apply to their guns.

I just looked at the news and as we all know they are having a revolution in Syria. The death toll is 60,000 and counting. I wonder which of our politicians will want to see those headlines in the USA in a year or two. We have a much larger population so the DT here may be closer to 600,000. Maybe some of these left leaning politicians need to understand where this could lead if they continue. Will they want this on their conscience? Once it starts there will be no turning back.

extremist wrote:

VMI77 wrote:There is another aspect of registration under the NFA we haven't been discussing: you give up your 4th Amendment right against search and seizure. Registration under the NFA allows the BATF to enter your home to inspect your registered devices anytime they please.

That is not true. As an NFA owner, I speak from experience and knowledge. Also see:

http://www.recguns.com/Sources/IIF1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They still have to have a warrant and reasonable articulate suspicion to justify requesting access to your home.

Not "anytime they please".

Even Title II/Class 3 dealers are given notice before having their premises inspected for compliance - (Correction, FFL/SOT/Class 3 Dealers CAN be subject to inspection without notice DURING regular business hours).

As a Form 4 NFA owner, you do NOT have to give up your 4th Amendment rights - at least not yet.


Regards,
James

Articles I've read say otherwise, but you're right according to the source you cite. However, I don't see "reasonable articulate suspicion" to be much of an obstacle (and I'm assuming that such suspicion is the basis for obtaining the warrant). Also, we don't know what changes may occur as the result of adding to the NFA registration.

Bob in Big D wrote:I just looked at the news and as we all know they are having a revolution in Syria. The death toll is 60,000 and counting. I wonder which of our politicians will want to see those headlines in the USA in a year or two. We have a much larger population so the DT here may be closer to 600,000. Maybe some of these left leaning politicians need to understand where this could lead if they continue. Will they want this on their conscience? Once it starts there will be no turning back.

Conscience? You're giving them too much credit. We're going to have to get past the notion that these lefties have a conscience like normal people do if we're going to successfully defend against their depredations. They are perfectly willing to sacrifice others, including children, to get their way.

Agreed! The hard left has no conscience. I am speaking of the ones on the fence! The ones checking to see which way the wind blows.

I think we may be a little too nearsighted right now. While reading this thread, I saw several iterations of "I know it won't pass" or "I am hoping it won't pass" or "If it passes, which I don't think it will...". I don't worry (too much) that a ban will pass in this legislative session. I do worry about the next. If the Republican and Tea Party base don't get their acts together and come up with some concise plans to get a hold of their base memberships and come together, the House will be lost, and then it won't be a matter of if, but when.

About 4 years ago, the day of the first election of the annointed one, I look at my husband and said, "Secede". He looked at me kind of funny. I have felt that way every day since. I was in a Facebook conversation with an anti-gun woman, and she said something to the effect that I don't need high capacity, automatic weapons because the 2A was written so that civilians could protect themselves from their government, and that she knew that would never happen in America today. I promptly informed her that I would take up arms at any time, against anyone or any group, that infringed on my Constitutional rights. Try me. Again, we have to get our like-minded people re-united instead of divided, lest DiFi get her wish in the next session.

The_Busy_Mom wrote:I think we may be a little too nearsighted right now. While reading this thread, I saw several iterations of "I know it won't pass" or "I am hoping it won't pass" or "If it passes, which I don't think it will...". I don't worry (too much) that a ban will pass in this legislative session. I do worry about the next. If the Republican and Tea Party base don't get their acts together and come up with some concise plans to get a hold of their base memberships and come together, the House will be lost, and then it won't be a matter of if, but when.

About 4 years ago, the day of the first election of the annointed one, I look at my husband and said, "Secede". He looked at me kind of funny. I have felt that way every day since. I was in a Facebook conversation with an anti-gun woman, and she said something to the effect that I don't need high capacity, automatic weapons because the 2A was written so that civilians could protect themselves from their government, and that she knew that would never happen in America today. I promptly informed her that I would take up arms at any time, against anyone or any group, that infringed on my Constitutional rights. Try me. Again, we have to get our like-minded people re-united instead of divided, lest DiFi get her wish in the next session.

She sounds like a real student of history (sarcasm alert). Would I be likely to lose if I bet this woman has never read a non-fiction book since her last day in a classroom? My son recently graduated from UT Austin and according to him, at least 50% of the students there were completely ignorant of any historical event that happened before they were born, and a lot of them that happened after (and saying 50% is being generous). And let's not forget, UT is where a large number of those who graduated in the top 10% of their high school classes choose to go to college. That's how the Socialists are winning....they got control of the educational system and eliminated all content that doesn't serve their agenda, which obviously includes thinking.

VMI77 wrote:

The_Busy_Mom wrote:I think we may be a little too nearsighted right now. While reading this thread, I saw several iterations of "I know it won't pass" or "I am hoping it won't pass" or "If it passes, which I don't think it will...". I don't worry (too much) that a ban will pass in this legislative session. I do worry about the next. If the Republican and Tea Party base don't get their acts together and come up with some concise plans to get a hold of their base memberships and come together, the House will be lost, and then it won't be a matter of if, but when.

About 4 years ago, the day of the first election of the annointed one, I look at my husband and said, "Secede". He looked at me kind of funny. I have felt that way every day since. I was in a Facebook conversation with an anti-gun woman, and she said something to the effect that I don't need high capacity, automatic weapons because the 2A was written so that civilians could protect themselves from their government, and that she knew that would never happen in America today. I promptly informed her that I would take up arms at any time, against anyone or any group, that infringed on my Constitutional rights. Try me. Again, we have to get our like-minded people re-united instead of divided, lest DiFi get her wish in the next session.

She sounds like a real student of history (sarcasm alert). Would I be likely to lose if I bet this woman has never read a non-fiction book since her last day in a classroom? My son recently graduated from UT Austin and according to him, at least 50% of the students there were completely ignorant of any historical event that happened before they were born, and a lot of them that happened after (and saying 50% is being generous). And let's not forget, UT is where a large number of those who graduated in the top 10% of their high school classes choose to go to college. That's how the Socialists are winning....they got control of the educational system and eliminated all content that doesn't serve their agenda, which obviously includes thinking.

Our educational system has generally been a failure for the past 50 years, regardless of the efforts of the Socialist/Progressives.

The_Busy_Mom wrote:I think we may be a little too nearsighted right now. While reading this thread, I saw several iterations of "I know it won't pass" or "I am hoping it won't pass" or "If it passes, which I don't think it will...". I don't worry (too much) that a ban will pass in this legislative session. I do worry about the next. If the Republican and Tea Party base don't get their acts together and come up with some concise plans to get a hold of their base memberships and come together, the House will be lost, and then it won't be a matter of if, but when.

About 4 years ago, the day of the first election of the annointed one, I look at my husband and said, "Secede". He looked at me kind of funny. I have felt that way every day since. I was in a Facebook conversation with an anti-gun woman, and she said something to the effect that I don't need high capacity, automatic weapons because the 2A was written so that civilians could protect themselves from their government, and that she knew that would never happen in America today. I promptly informed her that I would take up arms at any time, against anyone or any group, that infringed on my Constitutional rights. Try me. Again, we have to get our like-minded people re-united instead of divided, lest DiFi get her wish in the next session.

Sarcasm on.

Be careful. We don't want to taint public opinion of us gun nuts. We need to be diplomatic. We would not want to make the antis pee in their droors. You can catch more flies with honey, especially if you want to catch flies.

Sarcasm off.

Anygunanywhere

Purplehood wrote:Our educational system has generally been a failure for the past 50 years, due to the efforts of the Socialist/Progressives.

Fixed it for you!

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/h ... -the-house" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

According to this article from The Hill, Senate leaders have agreed not to allow any bills to be introduced in that body until Jan. 22. That helps explain why we haven't seen Sen. Feinstein's bill for a proposed new ban yet.