Where Are We Headed?

[i8godzilla]

This is now the second Sheriff--that I have heard about--that has publicly stated his refusal to enforce any more Federal gun laws.

Kentucky:
http://www.enquirerherald.com/2013/01/1 ... -wont.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oregon:
http://www.kval.com/politics/Sheriff-to ... 43401.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I was in the PX at Ft. Hood yesterday. At the gun counter were many soldiers expressing their concerns about further gun control. One GI stated that he was glad he was due to ETS next month because he believed that a new Civil War was inevitable. After making the statement, a couple more chimed in that they also had concerns. Their conversation was interrupted by a Major that simply stated, "Knock it off RIGHT NOW!" As the Major walked away you could see heads shaking back and forth and eyes rolling.

I pray that as a nation we can all come together and keep our Republic strong and whole.

BTW my son and I were able to score two boxes of .223 each at 'normal' pricing.

[K.Mooneyham]

The major has to enforce "the standards", probably felt its against good order and discipline. However, enlisted folks, at least in the USAF, are notorious for not taking officers very seriously on that sort of stuff. He might have shut them down while in public, but they'll still be talking about it, guarantee.

[oldtexan]

This is now the second Sheriff--that I have heard about--that has publicly stated his refusal to enforce any more Federal gun laws.

Kentucky:
http://www.enquirerherald.com/2013/01/1 ... -wont.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oregon:
http://www.kval.com/politics/Sheriff-to ... 43401.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I was in the PX at Ft. Hood yesterday. At the gun counter were many soldiers expressing their concerns about further gun control. One GI stated that he was glad he was due to ETS next month because he believed that a new Civil War was inevitable. After making the statement, a couple more chimed in that they also had concerns. Their conversation was interrupted by a Major that simply stated, "Knock it off RIGHT NOW!" As the Major walked away you could see heads shaking back and forth and eyes rolling.

I pray that as a nation we can all come together and keep our Republic strong and whole.

BTW my son and I were able to score two boxes of .223 each at 'normal' pricing.

I don't think we are experiencing 1860 all over again, but I am concerned that the polarization in America seems to have become self-perpetuating. A worrisome sign is that some people on our side believe the most extreme propaganda about the motives of the other side and the ability of the other side to turn its proposals into government policy. When people believe propaganda, they begin to make decisions based on it, rather than on reality.

[RottenApple]

I don't think we are experiencing 1860 all over again, but I am concerned that the polarization in America seems to have become self-perpetuating. A worrisome sign is that some people on our side believe the most extreme propaganda about the motives of the other side and the ability of the other side to turn its proposals into government policy. When people believe propaganda, they begin to make decisions based on it, rather than on reality.

In general, you are correct. But, IMHO, you are wrong on this issue. One side (the left) has reaped all the benefits of "compromise" and the other side (the right) has received nothing but more restrictions; One side (the left) demonizes and dehumanizes the other (the right); One side (the left) refuses to go about making change in a legal and constitutional manner, while the other (the right) continues to work within the system.... And it's been this way for ~100 years.

I'm sorry. But there's only so many times someone can be given the benefit of the doubt before you become look like a fool for believing them. "Fool me once, shame on you; Fool me twice, shame on me." Well, on this particular issue, shame on us all. Shame on us and those who believe like us for ever allowing it to come this far. We've let them fool us with their compromise time and time again. Many of us are fed up with it and are refusing to budge even one more step.

At this point, I look at their history of what they have been doing; I look at the history of other countries that have done the same/similar things; And I look at where we are heading.

"The one who does not remember history is bound to live through it again" - George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952), inscribed on a plaque at Auschwitz

[chasfm11]

I don't think we are experiencing 1860 all over again, but I am concerned that the polarization in America seems to have become self-perpetuating. A worrisome sign is that some people on our side believe the most extreme propaganda about the motives of the other side and the ability of the other side to turn its proposals into government policy. When people believe propaganda, they begin to make decisions based on it, rather than on reality.

We are left with a choice of believing the worst of those who are mobilizing against our Constitutional freedoms or the propaganda coming from them about how they mean no harm.

Personally, I value consistency as a measure of who I believe. Unfortunately, there is little consistency among any of the political leaders today. President Obama, who opposed debt ceiling increases as a Senator now wants them and would like to have the power to do them by himself. I don't need anyone else to produce propaganda on the subject - I can see that inconsistency for myself.

On of the values of reading items on this forum is the wealth of information that is presented. Reviewing the history that has been presented about the anti-gun actions since the turn of the 20th century, it is clear that there is a group of people whose goal is to unconstitutionally ban guns. I say "unconstitutionally" because there is a Constitutional mechanism for accomplishing that but not one of them is recommending that approach.

President Obama campaigned saying that he was not coming for our guns. Today, he is going to take action to do just that, Again, there is no propaganda involved - just his own words.

There is no denying the UN Agenda. From the Kyoto treaty to the small arms treaty, that organization is pushing for things that are not only not in the best interests of the United States but which countermand our Constitution. I personally believe that those who advocate for the UN's proposals are by default, seeking to overturn our Constitution.

I believe that gun control is not a singular item and should not be viewed as such. The Sandy Hook massacre did not start it but is simply a vehicle by which it can be advanced. That the politicians involved would use the death of children to advance their agenda speaks volumes about their motivation.

I've never before been interested in politics until the past few years. Like so many of the rest of the US population, I have helped to cause our current problems by not focusing on them while they were much smaller. I don't intend to allow that to continue. I've very focused now and am encouraging all that I come in contact with to do the same thing. That isn't propaganda but simply me finally trying to fulfill my responsibilities to be an informed voting citizen. I work very hard at not being swayed by the propaganda from any particular faction.

[VMI77]

I don't think we are experiencing 1860 all over again, but I am concerned that the polarization in America seems to have become self-perpetuating. A worrisome sign is that some people on our side believe the most extreme propaganda about the motives of the other side and the ability of the other side to turn its proposals into government policy. When people believe propaganda, they begin to make decisions based on it, rather than on reality.

We are left with a choice of believing the worst of those who are mobilizing against our Constitutional freedoms or the propaganda coming from them about how they mean no harm.

Personally, I value consistency as a measure of who I believe. Unfortunately, there is little consistency among any of the political leaders today. President Obama, who opposed debt ceiling increases as a Senator now wants them and would like to have the power to do them by himself. I don't need anyone else to produce propaganda on the subject - I can see that inconsistency for myself.

On of the values of reading items on this forum is the wealth of information that is presented. Reviewing the history that has been presented about the anti-gun actions since the turn of the 20th century, it is clear that there is a group of people whose goal is to unconstitutionally ban guns. I say "unconstitutionally" because there is a Constitutional mechanism for accomplishing that but not one of them is recommending that approach.

President Obama campaigned saying that he was not coming for our guns. Today, he is going to take action to do just that, Again, there is no propaganda involved - just his own words.

There is no denying the UN Agenda. From the Kyoto treaty to the small arms treaty, that organization is pushing for things that are not only not in the best interests of the United States but which countermand our Constitution. I personally believe that those who advocate for the UN's proposals are by default, seeking to overturn our Constitution.

I believe that gun control is not a singular item and should not be viewed as such. The Sandy Hook massacre did not start it but is simply a vehicle by which it can be advanced. That the politicians involved would use the death of children to advance their agenda speaks volumes about their motivation.

I've never before been interested in politics until the past few years. Like so many of the rest of the US population, I have helped to cause our current problems by not focusing on them while they were much smaller. I don't intend to allow that to continue. I've very focused now and am encouraging all that I come in contact with to do the same thing. That isn't propaganda but simply me finally trying to fulfill my responsibilities to be an informed voting citizen. I work very hard at not being swayed by the propaganda from any particular faction.

Not really. What he did was speak in liberal code. For instance, Biden, defending the notion that Obama wasn't going to take guns away from people, said BO wasn't going to get his Benelli. That was a carefully crafted statement. It didn't mean BO wasn't coming after our guns, it meant that he wasn't coming after the guns of a certain class of people. Yeah, he's willing to "allow" us to have double-barrel shotguns. It's just like when they talk about "gun violence" --it's deliberate misdirection. The liberal "elites" are very careful to craft their language in terms that very specifically tells us what they're really going to do, but fools a lot of people into believing something different. People hear "he's not getting my Benelli" as a general statement ---that Biden's Benelli equals my Glock, so that gun confiscation isn't on the table-- but he really means exactly what he says: if you've got a Benelli like his then you'll be allowed to keep it.

Granting these liberal elitists the benefit of the doubt is suicidal.

[VMI77]

Deleted redundant post.

[VMI77]

This is now the second Sheriff--that I have heard about--that has publicly stated his refusal to enforce any more Federal gun laws.

Kentucky:
http://www.enquirerherald.com/2013/01/1 ... -wont.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oregon:
http://www.kval.com/politics/Sheriff-to ... 43401.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I was in the PX at Ft. Hood yesterday. At the gun counter were many soldiers expressing their concerns about further gun control. One GI stated that he was glad he was due to ETS next month because he believed that a new Civil War was inevitable. After making the statement, a couple more chimed in that they also had concerns. Their conversation was interrupted by a Major that simply stated, "Knock it off RIGHT NOW!" As the Major walked away you could see heads shaking back and forth and eyes rolling.

I pray that as a nation we can all come together and keep our Republic strong and whole.

BTW my son and I were able to score two boxes of .223 each at 'normal' pricing.

I don't think we are experiencing 1860 all over again, but I am concerned that the polarization in America seems to have become self-perpetuating. A worrisome sign is that some people on our side believe the most extreme propaganda about the motives of the other side and the ability of the other side to turn its proposals into government policy. When people believe propaganda, they begin to make decisions based on it, rather than on reality.

I'm not sure what you're referring to. Can you tell us what our side is concerned about that is really "propaganda?" --especially "extreme propaganda" about the motives of the left? They've publicly stated that they want to ban all private ownership of firearms. As far as the 2nd Amendment goes, that's literally the most they can do --the extreme-- so how can any claims made by our side be extreme? They can't do more than take all our guns away.

[oldtexan]

One side (the left) demonizes and dehumanizes the other (the right); ....

If you think we don't demonize and dehumanize them as well, just take a look at personal insults hurled at Feinstein, Reid, Sheila Jackson Lee, etc on this board. I just read a post here from a member of this board referring to Senator Reid as rotting kimchee. Yesterday I read a post here saying Jackson Lee is bigoted and arrogant. They do it to us; we do it to them. There's no difference in that respect. I much prefer our policy positions, but our tactics stink as bad as theirs do.

[K.Mooneyham]

One side (the left) demonizes and dehumanizes the other (the right); ....

If you think we don't demonize and dehumanize them as well, just take a look at personal insults hurled at Feinstein, Reid, Sheila Jackson Lee, etc on this board. I just read a post here from a member of this board referring to Senator Reid as rotting kimchee. Yesterday I read a post here saying Jackson Lee is bigoted and arrogant. They do it to us; we do it to them. There's no difference in that respect. I much prefer our policy positions, but our tactics stink as bad as theirs do.

If you think the things that are said about liberal-progressive/Democrat politicans on this forum are bad, that is your opinion. But, I urge you to go to a liberal-progressive forum and see the sort of things they say about Republicans/conservatives and libertarians. I'm not saying two wrongs make a right, but I am pointing out that the things said here are incredibly mild and tame compared to what is said about conservatives and libertarians by the liberal-progressives.

[baldeagle]

One side (the left) demonizes and dehumanizes the other (the right); ....

If you think we don't demonize and dehumanize them as well, just take a look at personal insults hurled at Feinstein, Reid, Sheila Jackson Lee, etc on this board. I just read a post here from a member of this board referring to Senator Reid as rotting kimchee. Yesterday I read a post here saying Jackson Lee is bigoted and arrogant. They do it to us; we do it to them. There's no difference in that respect. I much prefer our policy positions, but our tactics stink as bad as theirs do.

It has been that way since our country was founded. One example will suffice.

Thomas Jefferson's enthusiasm for all things French, including the recent French Revolution, drove his political opponents into a frenzy of hysterical rhetoric. When Jefferson ran for president against John Adams in 1800, Adamsites called him an apostle of anarchy, a demagogue, a trickster and-worst of all-a Franco-maniac. One newspaper editor, envisioning an American Reign of Terror, asked readers, "Are you prepared to see your dwellings in flames, ... female chastity violated, or children writhing on the pike?" Another warned that if Jefferson were to be elected, "the soil will be soaked with blood and the nation black with crimes."

[chasfm11]

One side (the left) demonizes and dehumanizes the other (the right); ....

If you think we don't demonize and dehumanize them as well, just take a look at personal insults hurled at Feinstein, Reid, Sheila Jackson Lee, etc on this board. I just read a post here from a member of this board referring to Senator Reid as rotting kimchee. Yesterday I read a post here saying Jackson Lee is bigoted and arrogant. They do it to us; we do it to them. There's no difference in that respect. I much prefer our policy positions, but our tactics stink as bad as theirs do.

I can only speak for myself but much of my attitude is driven by intense frustration. There is no way that I can win. The Republicans get elected and they ignore all of the good things that they put in their platform to get us to vote for them. The Democrats get elected and they try to do every single bad thing that they promised in their platform.

I'm an equal opportunity name caller. I can violate the 10 year old daughter rule about either side.

[VMI77]

One side (the left) demonizes and dehumanizes the other (the right); ....

If you think we don't demonize and dehumanize them as well, just take a look at personal insults hurled at Feinstein, Reid, Sheila Jackson Lee, etc on this board. I just read a post here from a member of this board referring to Senator Reid as rotting kimchee. Yesterday I read a post here saying Jackson Lee is bigoted and arrogant. They do it to us; we do it to them. There's no difference in that respect. I much prefer our policy positions, but our tactics stink as bad as theirs do.

By the standard you're suggesting, we wouldn't be able to call demons demons. Feinstein is ON RECORD saying she wants to ban the private ownership of all firearms. That is a violation of her oath of office as well and being immoral. If she isn't a demon, who is? Are people on this board calling for the murder of the Feinsteins, et al? I'm not seeing it. The liberals, not just on blogs, but in the national MSM, are calling for the incarceration and extermination of conservatives and people who own guns. You may see equivalence; I don't.

[oldtexan]

One side (the left) demonizes and dehumanizes the other (the right); ....

If you think we don't demonize and dehumanize them as well, just take a look at personal insults hurled at Feinstein, Reid, Sheila Jackson Lee, etc on this board. I just read a post here from a member of this board referring to Senator Reid as rotting kimchee. Yesterday I read a post here saying Jackson Lee is bigoted and arrogant. They do it to us; we do it to them. There's no difference in that respect. I much prefer our policy positions, but our tactics stink as bad as theirs do.

By the standard you're suggesting, we wouldn't be able to call demons demons. Feinstein is ON RECORD saying she wants to ban the private ownership of all firearms. That is a violation of her oath of office as well and being immoral. If she isn't a demon, who is? Are people on this board calling for the murder of the Feinsteins, et al? I'm not seeing it. The liberals, not just on blogs, but in the national MSM, are calling for the incarceration and extermination of conservatives and people who own guns. You may see equivalence; I don't.

I recommend that we agree to disagree.