Good intentions v. good tactics

[baldeagle]

As to the discussion of Ted Cruz that started this thread, and with all due respect to Charles, whom I admire, this is nothing but a red herring. I'm shocked that so many people that I respect have fallen for it.

And meaning no disrespect to you, you don't know what I know. I can't say more than this; I've been at NRA all this week in various committee meetings, including Legislative Policy. It doesn't matter what Reid said publicly, the deal was done and Cruz screwed it up. We have 12 Obama federal judges because of Cruz. People who get their information from the Internet and news media, with no insider information, can only guess and surmise. Again, I mean no disrespect but that's the hard cold truth.

First of all, you have me at an unfair advantage, because you're claiming knowledge that I can't possibly verify. However, I have a tremendous amount of difficulty believing that Republicans could have made any sort of deal with Harry Reid that he would have honored. He is a corrupt, dishonest liar. Any deal he makes is suspect at best. Furthermore, I don't trust any of the GOP leadership to be telling the truth. They have lied directly to the voters repeatedly. I look at actions, not words, and their actions have been at cross purposes to their words for far too long.

You may be willing to destroy the Republican Party and hand control to the Democrats, but I'm not nor is the majority of anti-Democrats. Here's the sad truth, there aren't enough conservatives to win. If you think destroying the Republican Party will see a powerful conservative party rise from the ashes, then you can look into the mirror and see the guy who's drinking the Kool-Aid. The Country has changed because the population has changed, not because of Washington. We will never see the 1950's again.

Chas.

Fine. If we're going to destroy the country, let's get on with it. What's the point of delaying the inevitable while the scoundrels in Washington continue to enrich themselves while they slowly drive us into the ditch? There may not be enough conservatives to win (debatable), but there are darn sure enough to guarantee that a moderate Republican will lose.

BTW, Reagan was elected in the 80's not the 50's. And if the GOP hadn't nominated GHW Bush to a second term, Clinton might not have been President. As it was, 19% of the population lodged a protest vote for Ross Perot, and the rest is history. If that's what the GOP wants, then nominate Jeb Bush. He's guaranteed to lose.

With all due respect, Charles, the arguments aren't working any more. Conservatives are extremely angry, and they will abandon the GOP in droves if a conservative isn't nominated this time. Call it childish if you like. It is what it is. If people don't wake up, and soon, the country is going in the toilet anyway.

[rbwhatever1]

This is exactly what the money printers thrive on. Keep the people fighting with each other on meaningless issues and Washington can do what Washington does best. Spend your grandchildren's future. The pendulum swings back and fourth between two parties that have together destroyed the futures of generations. The Grand Illusion. Nullify Washington and let the States sort out their own Destinies.

Or sit back and relax. Turn on Netflix. Clean your firearms. Shoot some firearms. Inventory your food and ammo, make sure all is squared away. Check the prices of bulk American ammo on the internet and buy a few thousand more rounds. Keep the fire going over the weekend, it will be cold. Cook some good food for the ice bowl on Sunday. Chat with your kids and make sure they are focused on the same thing.

Most importantly, give it just a little more time and Washington will Nullify itself...

[Oldgringo]

Every time I hear about Ted Cruz he is only referred to as a "firebrand" and an up and coming possible Presidential candidate. He can ride his wave of attention to the debates but I imagine that he'll crash and burn just like Rick Perry. If Ted Cruz is to be groomed for President he'll need more than another year.

If Ted Cruz were to win the Republican nomination, then another Democrat will occupy the White House. Cruz cannot win the Presidency.

Chas.

......nor can Jeb Bush.

[anygunanywhere]

We aren't going to get a candidate from the republican wing of the GOP. You can bank on Bush, or Christi, or another democrat GOP. Why vote? Nothing is going to change. Stroo's post is right on. This is why true republican voters stay home.

[Cedar Park Dad]

Well said. I sometimes wonder if Mr. Cruz is doing some 'grandstanding' ?

Thats all he does. He's not trying to work with anyone else to pass effective legislation.

[Cedar Park Dad]

Every time I hear about Ted Cruz he is only referred to as a "firebrand" and an up and coming possible Presidential candidate. He can ride his wave of attention to the debates but I imagine that he'll crash and burn just like Rick Perry. If Ted Cruz is to be groomed for President he'll need more than another year.

Cruz would be a poor president for the same reasons as the current President. He's not actually led or managed people. Enough with the amateurs. We need to turn over the chair to an experienced captain. As we've seen, learning on the job is detrimental to the nation's health.

[baldeagle]

Well said. I sometimes wonder if Mr. Cruz is doing some 'grandstanding' ?

Thats all he does. He's not trying to work with anyone else to pass effective legislation.

Humor me. When is the last time that Congress passed effective legislation?

[VMI77]

TAM

Substitute the words "republican voter" for the words "politicians and zealots", and you have the reason we have the current POTUS. They stayed home because Romney wasn't conservative enough for them. The Republican House and Senate do not elect the President. The voters do (actually, Independents do). As long as they (to use your words) "are willing to die on all hills, all the time, without regard for the consequences" we will have a Democrat in the White House. How many times, on this forum and other places have I read, "If the Republicans don't get a presidential candidate I can get behind, and agrees with my principals, I will not..." If you want the republican politicians to wake up, so too need the Republican "voters." Just MHO.

Frankly, that argument will no longer fly with me and a lot of other people. We're sick and tired of being lied to by Republicans. If we have to destroy the party, then so be it, but it needs to change. Right now the Republicans seem thrilled to have Jeb Bush running for President. He will not win. Conservatives will not vote for him. It's time for the Republicans to learn that they need conservatives to win and start paying attention to what they are asking for.

There are two sides to the coin you're looking at. From your side, the GOP should nominate someone, and then the voters should support that nominee. The other side of that coin is the GOP should let the voters decide who the nominee should be and then support that nominee. So far, the GOP has proven they could care less what voters want. They have attacked (with money and support) EVERY conservative nominee in the country despite the fact that the voters nominated them. McConnell actually said he would "crush" the Tea Party. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... going-cru/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; In Mississippi Cochran appealed to Democrats and accused his Tea Party opponent of being a racist to win his runoff. The GOP liked that tactic so well they tried it (unsuccessfully) in the Georgia Senate race as well.

When did it become extreme to demand that Congress obey the Constitution? To ask that Congress balance the budget? (Our debt is now over $18 TRILLION. How much higher can it go before the country collapses?) To ask that the Government live with its means?

As to the discussion of Ted Cruz that started this thread, and with all due respect to Charles, whom I admire, this is nothing but a red herring. I'm shocked that so many people that I respect have fallen for it.

Congress wasn't going home until Reid got his nominations. He said so himself, a week before Cruz' actions supposedly made it possible. http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/12/17/te ... ange-rules" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; http://dailysignal.com/2014/12/16/ted-c ... -nominees/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.govexec.com/management/2014/ ... en/100659/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Senate also kicks off the week with a few additional confirmation votes on some of the president's nominees, as the upper chamber awaits instruction from the House on some of those other big-ticket items they'll need to pass before leaving Washington for the holidays.

More than 100 nominees are still awaiting Senate approval before Republicans take control of the Senate next year. Among them is the nominee to head Immigration and Customs Enforcement, Sarah Saldaña, whose apparently easy nomination has been complicated by Obama's executive action on immigration. Given the new Republican opposition to her nomination, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid could put Saldaña on the calendar this week to approve her nomination under a Democratic majority.

http://hotair.com/archives/2014/12/14/q ... -day-1940/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A Senate source outside the Cruz and Lee offices with direct knowledge of the behind the scenes conversations tells me, “GOP leadership knew Reid was going to file cloture on up to 20 controversial nominations yesterday afternoon before they tried to move CROmnibus votes to monday. They told us the process to clear non-controversial nominations had broken down because Reid was going to file cloture on these nominations. So they knew this was going to happen regardless.”…

The Republican leadership is arguing that they might have been able to convince Reid to hold off on these controversial nominations if we played ball on the CROmnibus, but that’s just speculation. The tradeoff last night was for Lee et al to give up their right to offer amendments on the CROmnibus in exchange for the possibility that Reid wouldn’t go through with his nominations, if he was feeling generous.

Anyone who believes Reid would have passed up this opportunity had Cruz and Lee not objected is drinking the Washington koolaid. Some Democrats have claimed (to the press) that they were concerned that some members might have left for the holidays destroying their chances to get the nominees through. Sure they would have. And I've got a piece of land I'll sell ya at a really good price. You just can't look at it before you sign the papers. Care to make that deal?

Dems will never miss a chance to stir up trouble in the GOP, and the RINOs in the GOP will never miss the chance to publicly and openly castigate Cruz. (Notice they never mention Mike Lee.) If you can't figure out why, maybe you need to do some more serious thinking.

The truth is many Senators were mad because their weekend plans were ruined. They saw an opportunity to blame Cruz for the nominations (which left them off the hook for them) and they jumped on it. Does ANYONE complaining about Cruz know how many voted for the nominations? How much debate took place before the nominations were approved?

I'll wait for your answer.

This. The current leadership, if not the entire GOP, deserves to be destroyed. The last election made it clear that voting under the current circumstances is absolutely useless. The GOP serves the interests of their own exclusive club of which none of us are members and the ruling oligarchs. Unless there is radical change I doubt I'll waste my time voting again.

As far as Ted Cruz goes, I really really want to like him. I think I do like him. Any doubts I have about him are not because of his tactics or his behavior, but because his wife works for Goldman Sachs. Can you really represent the American people when your spouse works for the most amoral and predatory financial institution on the planet? I really hope so but I have a very difficult time believing anyone associated with Goldman Sachs has clean hands.

[Abraham]

Not long ago, I suggested Cruz would eventually be found wanting and those who fell so deeply in love with him would be sorely disappointed.

And, here it is...

[Charles L. Cotton]

As to the discussion of Ted Cruz that started this thread, and with all due respect to Charles, whom I admire, this is nothing but a red herring. I'm shocked that so many people that I respect have fallen for it.

And meaning no disrespect to you, you don't know what I know. I can't say more than this; I've been at NRA all this week in various committee meetings, including Legislative Policy. It doesn't matter what Reid said publicly, the deal was done and Cruz screwed it up. We have 12 Obama federal judges because of Cruz. People who get their information from the Internet and news media, with no insider information, can only guess and surmise. Again, I mean no disrespect but that's the hard cold truth.

First of all, you have me at an unfair advantage, because you're claiming knowledge that I can't possibly verify. However, I have a tremendous amount of difficulty believing that Republicans could have made any sort of deal with Harry Reid that he would have honored. He is a corrupt, dishonest liar. Any deal he makes is suspect at best. Furthermore, I don't trust any of the GOP leadership to be telling the truth. They have lied directly to the voters repeatedly. I look at actions, not words, and their actions have been at cross purposes to their words for far too long.

There's really no point in me responding, so I'll be brief. The deal wasn't with Reid alone, it was between Democrats and Republicans on issues they both wanted in the budget. Believe what you will, but the "proof" you offered was nothing more than Cruz saying "it ain't so."

You may be willing to destroy the Republican Party and hand control to the Democrats, but I'm not nor is the majority of anti-Democrats. Here's the sad truth, there aren't enough conservatives to win. If you think destroying the Republican Party will see a powerful conservative party rise from the ashes, then you can look into the mirror and see the guy who's drinking the Kool-Aid. The Country has changed because the population has changed, not because of Washington. We will never see the 1950's again.

Chas.

Fine. If we're going to destroy the country, let's get on with it. What's the point of delaying the inevitable while the scoundrels in Washington continue to enrich themselves while they slowly drive us into the ditch? There may not be enough conservatives to win (debatable), but there are darn sure enough to guarantee that a moderate Republican will lose.

BTW, Reagan was elected in the 80's not the 50's. And if the GOP hadn't nominated GHW Bush to a second term, Clinton might not have been President. As it was, 19% of the population lodged a protest vote for Ross Perot, and the rest is history. If that's what the GOP wants, then nominate Jeb Bush. He's guaranteed to lose.

With all due respect, Charles, the arguments aren't working any more. Conservatives are extremely angry, and they will abandon the GOP in droves if a conservative isn't nominated this time. Call it childish if you like. It is what it is. If people don't wake up, and soon, the country is going in the toilet anyway.

This is nothing but groundless ranting. I'm a conservative, but we are a dying breed. We can't control Congress and we can't put people in the White House, so we have to support the people who most closely support our principles. If the conservatives are as numerous and powerful as you apparently believe, why aren't they in power. Blast the Republican Party all you wish, but the establishment can't vote more than one time, so your mythical conservative majority simply doesn't exist.

Chas.

[Charles L. Cotton]

We aren't going to get a candidate from the republican wing of the GOP. You can bank on Bush, or Christi, or another democrat GOP. Why vote? Nothing is going to change. Stroo's post is right on. This is why true republican voters stay home.

Christi has no chance. Explain why no Republican candidate that you want can get the nomination. I'll save you some time; those people don't have the support because American voters want moderates.

Elected officials didn't ruin the Country, Americans ruined the Country. They want to be able to kill babies under the guise of "choice." They claim to want fiscal responsibility, but they want their Senator or Representatives to make sure pork barrel funds come to their state and town. They can't accept the simple truth that, if you don't work, you don't eat, so they raid the Social Security Fund to provide aid to dependent children and all sorts of welfare.

No Senator or House Member elected themselves; it was done by their constituents and the idea that there is a majority of conservative voters who just sit out elections is a pipe dream. White voters who make up the majority of conservatives turned out in record numbers in 2012 and Obama was still reelected.

The Country has changed and it isn't going back. People can either sit out and whine, or they can get involved and make the best of a bad situation.

Chas.

[Cedar Park Dad]

Well said. I sometimes wonder if Mr. Cruz is doing some 'grandstanding' ?

Thats all he does. He's not trying to work with anyone else to pass effective legislation.

Humor me. When is the last time that Congress passed effective legislation?

That statement kind of supports my argument...

but I'll bite. Closing the "donut hole" in Medicare.

[anygunanywhere]

We aren't going to get a candidate from the republican wing of the GOP. You can bank on Bush, or Christi, or another democrat GOP. Why vote? Nothing is going to change. Stroo's post is right on. This is why true republican voters stay home.

Christi has no chance. Explain why no Republican candidate that you want can get the nomination. I'll save you some time; those people don't have the support because American voters want moderates.

Elected officials didn't ruin the Country, Americans ruined the Country. They want to be able to kill babies under the guise of "choice." They claim to want fiscal responsibility, but they want their Senator or Representatives to make sure pork barrel funds come to their state and town. They can't accept the simple truth that, if you don't work, you don't eat, so they raid the Social Security Fund to provide aid to dependent children and all sorts of welfare.

No Senator or House Member elected themselves; it was done by their constituents and the idea that there is a majority of conservative voters who just sit out elections is a pipe dream. White voters who make up the majority of conservatives turned out in record numbers in 2012 and Obama was still reelected.

The Country has changed and it isn't going back. People can either sit out and whine, or they can get involved and make the best of a bad situation.

Chas.

I don't think any republican ticket will get elected to the white house in 2016. The voting block that will decide the election, the same that put the current loser in the white house, will put the next one in as well. This group does not want moderates. Congress might very well stay in GOP hands, but we will have to see.

I do agree with your overall assessment of the current situation and the outlook for the future.

Making the best of the bad situation has little to do with voting because just from what I have seen since the most recent election, voting does nothing.

[VMI77]

As to the discussion of Ted Cruz that started this thread, and with all due respect to Charles, whom I admire, this is nothing but a red herring. I'm shocked that so many people that I respect have fallen for it.

And meaning no disrespect to you, you don't know what I know. I can't say more than this; I've been at NRA all this week in various committee meetings, including Legislative Policy. It doesn't matter what Reid said publicly, the deal was done and Cruz screwed it up. We have 12 Obama federal judges because of Cruz. People who get their information from the Internet and news media, with no insider information, can only guess and surmise. Again, I mean no disrespect but that's the hard cold truth.

First of all, you have me at an unfair advantage, because you're claiming knowledge that I can't possibly verify. However, I have a tremendous amount of difficulty believing that Republicans could have made any sort of deal with Harry Reid that he would have honored. He is a corrupt, dishonest liar. Any deal he makes is suspect at best. Furthermore, I don't trust any of the GOP leadership to be telling the truth. They have lied directly to the voters repeatedly. I look at actions, not words, and their actions have been at cross purposes to their words for far too long.

There's really no point in me responding, so I'll be brief. The deal wasn't with Reid alone, it was between Democrats and Republicans on issues they both wanted in the budget. Believe what you will, but the "proof" you offered was nothing more than Cruz saying "it ain't so."

You may be willing to destroy the Republican Party and hand control to the Democrats, but I'm not nor is the majority of anti-Democrats. Here's the sad truth, there aren't enough conservatives to win. If you think destroying the Republican Party will see a powerful conservative party rise from the ashes, then you can look into the mirror and see the guy who's drinking the Kool-Aid. The Country has changed because the population has changed, not because of Washington. We will never see the 1950's again.

Chas.

Fine. If we're going to destroy the country, let's get on with it. What's the point of delaying the inevitable while the scoundrels in Washington continue to enrich themselves while they slowly drive us into the ditch? There may not be enough conservatives to win (debatable), but there are darn sure enough to guarantee that a moderate Republican will lose.

BTW, Reagan was elected in the 80's not the 50's. And if the GOP hadn't nominated GHW Bush to a second term, Clinton might not have been President. As it was, 19% of the population lodged a protest vote for Ross Perot, and the rest is history. If that's what the GOP wants, then nominate Jeb Bush. He's guaranteed to lose.

With all due respect, Charles, the arguments aren't working any more. Conservatives are extremely angry, and they will abandon the GOP in droves if a conservative isn't nominated this time. Call it childish if you like. It is what it is. If people don't wake up, and soon, the country is going in the toilet anyway.

This is nothing but groundless ranting. I'm a conservative, but we are a dying breed. We can't control Congress and we can't put people in the White House, so we have to support the people who most closely support our principles. If the conservatives are as numerous and powerful as you apparently believe, why aren't they in power. Blast the Republican Party all you wish, but the establishment can't vote more than one time, so your mythical conservative majority simply doesn't exist.

Chas.[/quote]

I don't think there is a conservative majority or a chance of one arising. However, I also don't think that there is a lefty majority. There is a majority of people who are receptive to a lot of libertarian philosophy and some conservative philosophy. Conservatives can ignore a lot of those social transformations that may have majority appeal, like homosexual marriage, and still get most of what they want and an improved country by allying themselves with those who agree on the big issues: immigration (majority against); political corruption (majority against); crony capitalism (majority against); police militarization (plurality against if not a majority); the war on drugs (majority against); too big too fail banks, government bailouts (majority against); government debt (plurality against if not a majority); etc.

Back when Barry Goldwater was running for president the GOP walked a different path. Now the GOP is just Democrat lite. Neither party represents the majority of the American people. The GOP can broaden its appeal but not under the current leadership since it has effectively dumped conservatives overboard while embracing everything that is rejected by those with whom we might form alliances. The GOP has decided to align themselves with that part of the ruling oligarchy that is willing to toss them a few of the crumbs left over from banqueting with the Democrats. All they care about is a few pieces of silver and a place at the table and they deserve the same fate as others who have made the same trade.

[Cedar Park Dad]

Every time I hear about Ted Cruz he is only referred to as a "firebrand" and an up and coming possible Presidential candidate. He can ride his wave of attention to the debates but I imagine that he'll crash and burn just like Rick Perry. If Ted Cruz is to be groomed for President he'll need more than another year.

If Ted Cruz were to win the Republican nomination, then another Democrat will occupy the White House. Cruz cannot win the Presidency.

Chas.

......nor can Jeb Bush.

Agreed.
Sorry but we don't need another Clinton vs. Bush fight. Enough with the dynasties already.