Bipolar

[jbarn]

Wow. All kinds of things wrong with this post.

A) ALL teenagers are "bipolar." It's part of puberty. Diagnosing someone with bipolar disorder while that person is in the middle of the -natural- hormonal imbalance that is puberty is an act of medical malpractice.

B) If you diagnose a teen or younger child with "bipolar," and put them on mood- and mind-altering drugs to "stabilize" them, you can seriously screw up their brain chemistry.

C) Bipolar drugs in someone who is NOT bipolar can do very, very bad things. Aggression, depression, suicidal tendencies, and more. Mis-diagnosing puberty as bipolar can emphasize some very dangerous traits in people. I've seen "bipolar drugs" actually cause bipolar symptoms. On the flip side, if you stuff a kid full of mood-regulating drugs, you can make them reliant upon them.

D) A person with true bipolar (and I have known some) is not inherently dangerous, even off their meds. A person who is stable, with no "mood disorders," is not inherently safe either. There are people with bipolar who don't take medication, because they have learned how to manage, how to control, their emotions. There are people who are "stable" who have no self-control.

E) Bipolar is not schizophrenia, multiple personality disorder, or any other mood or mental disorder where a person's very perception of reality is distorted. It is where a person's internal emotional control is on the fritz, and they go through mania/depression cycles. While the mania and depression can emphasize darker sides of the person, they don't make the person do a single thing. A person suffering through mania or depression CAN control themselves, and a great many people do.

F) If the OP isn't trolling us, then whatever psychiatrist diagnosed him as bipolar at 10 did him a great disservice. At this point, there is no way of knowing how much damage the bipolar drugs have done. Frankly, if he's telling the truth, then there is a "doctor" out there who belongs in jail for medical child abuse.

For the record, I ran all this past a family member who WAS diagnosed with bipolar disorder, and they agreed with every point.

Are you a physician? I ask because I have some training in this, and my training pretty much contrdicts all of that,

And a person who is bipolar is not qualified to make the statements you did just because he has the disorder.

[Joetb9552]

About the last sentence in my post I would like to apologize. It's a very touchy subject and in truth there are many people who will pass judgment on people with bipolar disorder with out any knowledge of the disorder. Y'all make a valid point and it definitely could and should have been worded better

[Joetb9552]

I can tell you that you'd be disqualified if you were seeking a pilot's license. Your condition is considered to be something that can't be cured.
It's also a condition, that even when treated, will likely manifest itself over your lifetime. Generally that manifestation is via "overt acts" - acts directly related to the condition that you wouldn't have otherwise taken.

It seems like you're asking to "get around" a condition that you're still being treated for. You're not claiming that you're not bi-polar, you're just claiming that you're stable. That's not enough (in Texas).

Apparently in the context of a CHL license:

A person is incapable of exercising sound judgment with respect to the proper use and storage of a handgun if:
The person has been diagnosed by a licensed physician as suffering from a psychiatric disorder or condition that causes or is likely to cause substantial impairment in judgment, mood, perception, impulse control, or intellectual ability;
The person suffers from a psychiatric disorder or condition described by Paragraph (A) of this subdivision that:
Is in remission but is reasonably likely to redevelop at a future time; or
Requires continuous medical treatment to avoid redevelopment; <----- HERE
The person has been diagnosed by a licensed physician or declared by a court to be incompetent to manage the person's own affairs; or
The person has entered, in any criminal proceeding, a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity.

I know that as a pilot, if you were misdiagnosed, you'd have a shot at it. And there are some specific things around proving you were misdiagnosed, but it's very expensive, and requires that you be medication free for years.

And in the context of owning a firearm - in the last 16 years have you ever had your medication adjusted? Were any of those circumstances dangerous to you or other people....


I feel for you - and understand that if you were essentially symptom free for 16 years that you should be treated like everyone else, but chances are that you'll have some "overt actions" in your lifetime if you're bipolar...

I can honestly say other than as I grew upping the dosage so I had the right amount. My doctors have never had to fool with my medications. I've been lucky enough that my bipolar disorder has been quite easily maintained.

[jbarn]

(d) For purposes of Subsection (a)(7), a person is incapable of exercising sound judgment with respect to the proper use and storage of a handgun if the person:
(1) has been diagnosed by a licensed physician as suffering from a psychiatric disorder or condition that causes or is likely to cause substantial impairment in judgment, mood, perception, impulse control, or intellectual ability;
(2) suffers from a psychiatric disorder or condition described by Subdivision (1) that:
(A) is in remission but is reasonably likely to redevelop at a future time; or
(B) requires continuous medical treatment to avoid redevelopment;


Welcome to the forums first off. While you requested our opinions, they are nothing more than that unless the rules change.

It seems that (2)(B) applies to you and DPS will deny your application. Case by case does seem a more idea way to deal with things, a flat prohibition is definitely easier. Case by case gets into opinions and what makes one person's opinion more valid than another? Mental illness and firearms is a major hot button issue. I don't see anyone will to make any effort to RELAX the rules regarding diagnosed mental illness and possessing a firearm.

You got delt a tough hand. I wish you well.

In fact, Bipolar is specifically listed...

Texas Government Code

(e) The following constitutes evidence that a person has a psychiatric disorder or condition described by Subsection (d)(1):
(1) involuntary psychiatric hospitalization;
(2) psychiatric hospitalization;
(3) inpatient or residential substance abuse treatment in the preceding five-year period;
(4) diagnosis in the preceding five-year period by a licensed physician that the person is dependent on alcohol, a controlled substance, or a similar substance; or
(5) diagnosis at any time by a licensed physician that the person suffers or has suffered from a psychiatric disorder or condition consisting of or relating to:
(A) schizophrenia or delusional disorder;
(B) bipolar disorder;
(C) chronic dementia, whether caused by illness, brain defect, or brain injury;
(D) dissociative identity disorder;
(E) intermittent explosive disorder; or
(F) antisocial personality disorder.

[JSThane]

@ Jbarn -

No, I'm not a physician. I am a layman observer. That does not disqualify my observations.
I have observed so-called "bipolar drugs" induce mania.
I have observed kids doped to the gills over misdiagnoses. These same kids never learned how to control their emotions, and in fact, it did screw them up later on in life.
I have personal observation of my own emotional rollercoaster during my teenage years. Had I not known what to expect, things could have been very different. In fact, I had school administrators attempt to have me diagnosed with some mental disorder because they disagreed with my Christianity and politics.
I have observed people with active bipolar disorder. They are NOT the demons people make them out to be. Nor is every bipolar person a constant walking risk of suicide. Yes, they can act rashly, but so can I, you, or anyone else. Blaming the bipolar is an excuse.



The bottom line is this: either convict them of a crime, or leave them alone. If they're too dangerous to have a gun, they're too dangerous to drive, have access to gasoline, fertilizer, ammonia, bleach, iodine, and a whole HOST of other potentially lethal objects and substances. If they're too dangerous to have a gun, they are too dangerous to walk the streets, and need to be institutionalized, either in jail, or in a mental ward.

I come on strong like this because I think its necessary. Restricting rights is NOT what we're about, and falling into the "mental health" trap ultimately hurts us. Allow a tool to take guns away from the "mentally ill," and our enemies will have US declared mentally ill. When reflecting on restrictions of ANY kind, think not "what good can this do?" but "what evil can this do, in the hands of our enemies?"

[Jumping Frog]

Allow a tool to take guns away from the "mentally ill," and our enemies will have US declared mentally ill. When reflecting on restrictions of ANY kind, think not "what good can this do?" but "what evil can this do, in the hands of our enemies?"

There are great dangers in allowing a physician diagnosis by itself to remove a person's right without some form of judicial due process. "Slippery slope" statements get mocked by the anti-gunner crowd, but they are no less valid.

[jbarn]

@ Jbarn -

No, I'm not a physician. I am a layman observer. That does not disqualify my observations.

Allow me to come on a little strong as well. I DO have training in this, and I also have experience dealing with Bipolar people. 90% of what you wrote is wrong. Your laymans observations have not been interpreted correctly.

[Wodathunkit]

Allow a tool to take guns away from the "mentally ill," and our enemies will have US declared mentally ill. When reflecting on restrictions of ANY kind, think not "what good can this do?" but "what evil can this do, in the hands of our enemies?"

There are great dangers in allowing a physician diagnosis by itself to remove a person's right without some form of judicial due process. "Slippery slope" statements get mocked by the anti-gunner crowd, but they are no less valid.

Amen! In our constant state to categorize everybody and criminalize everything, it is just a matter of time before everyone is unfit to own or carry a fire arm.

[Wodathunkit]

About the last sentence in my post I would like to apologize. It's a very touchy subject and in truth there are many people who will pass judgment on people with bipolar disorder with out any knowledge of the disorder. Y'all make a valid point and it definitely could and should have been worded better

Great response to your initial post, I'm sorry you've been "labeled".

[nightmare69]

Would someone who has been diagnosed with clinical depression by a medical doctor be legally able to own a firearm?

[WildBill]

Would someone who has been diagnosed with clinical depression by a medical doctor be legally able to own a firearm?

Yes

If you are talking about getting a CHL, this is not a condition that would disqualify a person.

[mojo84]

Would someone who has been diagnosed with clinical depression by a medical doctor be legally able to own a firearm?

I would think so. That would eliminate whole bunch of the population.

[nightmare]

Would someone who has been diagnosed with clinical depression by a medical doctor be legally able to own a firearm?

They can get a CHL, so yes.

[Joetb9552]

It seems that we are getting a little off topic. The main issue here is why should everyone with bipolar be scrutinized and discriminated against for something they can't help? I'm very open about my disorder as long as I know that it won't hurt me. When's I do tell someone they're shocked because I do take care with my meds I see my psychiatrist every three months and get blood work every year to make sure ipthe meds aren't affecting me negatively. I've never had one problem.so question is why shouldn't it be a case to case situation?

[Joetb9552]

(d) For purposes of Subsection (a)(7), a person is incapable of exercising sound judgment with respect to the proper use and storage of a handgun if the person:
(1) has been diagnosed by a licensed physician as suffering from a psychiatric disorder or condition that causes or is likely to cause substantial impairment in judgment, mood, perception, impulse control, or intellectual ability;
(2) suffers from a psychiatric disorder or condition described by Subdivision (1) that:
(A) is in remission but is reasonably likely to redevelop at a future time; or
(B) requires continuous medical treatment to avoid redevelopment;


Welcome to the forums first off. While you requested our opinions, they are nothing more than that unless the rules change.

It seems that (2)(B) applies to you and DPS will deny your application. Case by case does seem a more idea way to deal with things, a flat prohibition is definitely easier. Case by case gets into opinions and what makes one person's opinion more valid than another? Mental illness and firearms is a major hot button issue. I don't see anyone will to make any effort to RELAX the rules regarding diagnosed mental illness and possessing a firearm.

You got delt a tough hand. I wish you well.

In fact, Bipolar is specifically listed...

Texas Government Code

(e) The following constitutes evidence that a person has a psychiatric disorder or condition described by Subsection (d)(1):
(1) involuntary psychiatric hospitalization;
(2) psychiatric hospitalization;
(3) inpatient or residential substance abuse treatment in the preceding five-year period;
(4) diagnosis in the preceding five-year period by a licensed physician that the person is dependent on alcohol, a controlled substance, or a similar substance; or
(5) diagnosis at any time by a licensed physician that the person suffers or has suffered from a psychiatric disorder or condition consisting of or relating to:
(A) schizophrenia or delusional disorder;
(B) bipolar disorder;
(C) chronic dementia, whether caused by illness, brain defect, or brain injury;
(D) dissociative identity disorder;
(E) intermittent explosive disorder; or
(F) antisocial personality disorder.

I realize what the paper says. trust me I've read it. If I hadn't I wouldn't be doing this. I'm just trying to make people see both sides of the coin nothing is black and white.