Hospital 51% sign

[txinvestigator]

You are correct. 46.035 is the only code with an offense and penalty listed as far as carrying a handgun.

Its a MOO point.

Like a cow's opinion, it doesn't matter, it's moo. ;)

[txinvestigator]

"The licensed or unlicensed possession of a weapon on these premises is a felony with a maximum penalty of 10 years imprisonment and a fine not to exceed $10,000"

I must be blind; I don't see that in 411.

[txinvestigator]

But it is on the sign that bars and hospitals would post. Does that text being on the sign not equal an actual penalty?

You have me completely Where does 411 say that the signs that bars and hospitals must post must also have that language?

[txinvestigator]

I guess you are right, I just assumed that the 51% sign must have that language as that is the only language I have seen on 51% signs. Is that an incorrect assumption?

I dunno, I need a drink.

[srothstein]

The language on the sign was not based in law. TABC actually will provide the signs for free to a licensed premise and we came up with the wording. I do not know how they decided on the specific wording other than making sure it met the law, but I assume they added enough to try to make it clear to people who it applied to.


And to answer the original question about the language, I am not 100% sure of how it would work in court. The law requires the hospital to post a specific type of sign under the government code. This sign must make it known that the licensed carry is prohibited in the hospital by law. There is no penalty to the hospital for not posting, unless there is something in the licensing board rules.

PC 46.035 applies to CHL's and requires notice as per 30.06. The notice in 30.06 does not meet the requirements of the notice in GC 411.204. Since the hospital cannot (well, theoretically) be required to post an invalid sign, I have to think that the sign in 411 would meet the requirements of 46.035, despite its wording requirements. It would make no sense to require the hospital to post two signs for the job.

So, while I am not 100% sure, I always recommend watching for both signs at hospitals and nursing homes. I THINK you would be okay if it was not 30.06, but I am not sure and do not recommend being the test case.

Charles, maybe we could work on getting the hospital clause removed from the GC next legislature, allowing the individual hospitals to make their own decision. I know they will not want the responsibility of the decision, but they should have that right and responsibility. Arguing that they could still post if they desired might help overcome the resistance. What do you think?

[seamusTX]

I hope somebody smarter than I can figure out this situation, because I can't.

- Jim

[KD5NRH]

In the threads "51 % sign at a gas station," "Liquor Store Carry???," and others, it seems pretty well established that the sign has no legal standing in itself, and the only offense in walking past one would be 46.035(b)(1) which doesn't even mention the sign, but instead states,

(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for
on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;

Thus, the only relevance the sign could have is as evidence of knowledge of the 51% status if it is properly posted. Since 46.035(i) requires a 30.06 posting to validate 46.035(b)(4), I just don't see how the hospital's sign could have any meaning whatsoever to a CHL absent an accompanying 30.06 sign.