Dallas Zoo

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Dallas Zoo

Postby zx9rt1 » Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:02 pm

Does anyone know if concealed carry is o.k. at the Dallas Zoo? Thinking about going there in the next couple of days. Does anyone have any input? Thank you in advance.

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Re: Dallas Zoo

Postby zx9rt1 » Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:15 pm

Anybody know?
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Re: Dallas Zoo

Postby carlson1 » Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:20 pm

According to this thread it is.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=12425&p=143610&hilit=Zoos#p143610

You can always look at this forum for other places, but the zoo is not posted, so please let us know.
http://www.texas3006.com/
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Re: Dallas Zoo

Postby Kythas » Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:19 pm

Isn't the Dallas Zoo city owned? If so, it can't restrict CC anyway.
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Re: Dallas Zoo

Postby CHL/LEO » Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:43 pm

I believe the Dallas Zoo is posted but that is only from what other officers have told me. It is city owned (scroll to the bottom of the Dallas Zoo home page and you'll see that clearly stated) but that doesn't matter as the city has posted plenty of places that are now exempt - they just never remove the signs. I do know that we have at least one or two officers working the zoo premises whenever it is open to the public.

My question is why would you go to the Dallas Zoo when you can go to a world class zoo in Ft. Worth?
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Re: Dallas Zoo

Postby KBCraig » Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:54 am

CHL/LEO wrote:My question is why would you go to the Dallas Zoo when you can go to a world class zoo in Ft. Worth?

Not to mention, the Dallas Zoo is in an area where the bars aren't just to keep the animals in, they're to keep the neighbors out.
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Re: Dallas Zoo

Postby KD5NRH » Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:18 am

CHL/LEO wrote:My question is why would you go to the Dallas Zoo when you can go to a world class zoo in Ft. Worth?


Something about the Dallas zoo entrance just reminds me of large public restrooms...the smell of stale urine from the DART station reinforced that to the point that, in the 6 years I lived there, I never went in.
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Re: Dallas Zoo

Postby zx9rt1 » Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:50 pm

Well we went. At the front entrance it was posted 30.05?, not 30.06. Gunbuster sign that stated "includes persons licensed to carry a conceled hand gun" a class A misdemeanor. The Forth Worth Zoo is first rate in my book also. The kiddo wanted to see what the Dallas Zoo was like, so we did and didn't like. So was I right by not carrying my 1911? I think I should have.


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Re: Dallas Zoo

Postby Kythas » Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:02 am

zx9rt1 wrote:Well we went. At the front entrance it was posted 30.05?, not 30.06. Gunbuster sign that stated "includes persons licensed to carry a conceled hand gun" a class A misdemeanor. The Forth Worth Zoo is first rate in my book also. The kiddo wanted to see what the Dallas Zoo was like, so we did and didn't like. So was I right by not carrying my 1911? I think I should have.


Michael


30.05 has to do with criminal trespass. Note the section highlighted:

§ 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS. (a) A person commits an
offense if he enters or remains on or in property, including an
aircraft or other vehicle, of another without effective consent or
he enters or remains in a building of another without effective
consent and he:
(1) had notice that the entry was forbidden; or
(2) received notice to depart but failed to do so.
(b) For purposes of this section:
(1) "Entry" means the intrusion of the entire body.
(2) "Notice" means:
(A) oral or written communication by the owner or
someone with apparent authority to act for the owner;
(B) fencing or other enclosure obviously
designed to exclude intruders or to contain livestock;
(C) a sign or signs posted on the property or at
the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the
attention of intruders, indicating that entry is forbidden;
(D) the placement of identifying purple paint
marks on trees or posts on the property, provided that the marks
are:
(i) vertical lines of not less than eight
inches in length and not less than one inch in width;
(ii) placed so that the bottom of the mark
is not less than three feet from the ground or more than five feet
from the ground; and
(iii) placed at locations that are readily
visible to any person approaching the property and no more than:
(a) 100 feet apart on forest land; or
(b) 1,000 feet apart on land other
than forest land; or
(E) the visible presence on the property of a
crop grown for human consumption that is under cultivation, in the
process of being harvested, or marketable if harvested at the time
of entry.
(3) "Shelter center" has the meaning assigned by
Section 51.002, Human Resources Code.
(4) "Forest land" means land on which the trees are
potentially valuable for timber products.
(5) "Agricultural land" has the meaning assigned by
Section 75.001, Civil Practice and Remedies Code.
(6) "Superfund site" means a facility that:
(A) is on the National Priorities List
established under Section 105 of the federal Comprehensive
Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act of 1980 (42
U.S.C. Section 9605); or
(B) is listed on the state registry established
under Section 361.181, Health and Safety Code.
(7) "Critical infrastructure facility" means one of
the following, if completely enclosed by a fence or other physical
barrier that is obviously designed to exclude intruders:
(A) a chemical manufacturing facility;
(B) a refinery;
(C) an electrical power generating facility,
substation, switching station, electrical control center, or
electrical transmission or distribution facility;
(D) a water intake structure, water treatment
facility, wastewater treatment plant, or pump station;
(E) a natural gas transmission compressor
station;
(F) a liquid natural gas terminal or storage
facility;
(G) a telecommunications central switching
office;
(H) a port, railroad switching yard, trucking
terminal, or other freight transportation facility;
(I) a gas processing plant, including a plant
used in the processing, treatment, or fractionation of natural gas;
or
(J) a transmission facility used by a federally
licensed radio or television station.
(c) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that
the actor at the time of the offense was a fire fighter or emergency
medical services personnel, as that term is defined by Section
773.003, Health and Safety Code, acting in the lawful discharge of
an official duty under exigent circumstances.
(d) An offense under Subsection (e) is a Class C misdemeanor
unless it is committed in a habitation or unless the actor carries a
deadly weapon on or about the actor's person during the commission
of the offense, in which event it is a Class A misdemeanor. An
offense under Subsection (a) is a Class B misdemeanor, except that
the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if:
(1) the offense is committed:
(A) in a habitation or a shelter center;
(B) on a Superfund site; or
(C) on or in a critical infrastructure facility;
or
(2) the actor carries a deadly weapon on or about his
person during the commission of the offense.
(e) A person commits an offense if without express consent
or if without authorization provided by any law, whether in writing
or other form, the person:
(1) enters or remains on agricultural land of another;
(2) is on the agricultural land and within 100 feet of
the boundary of the land when apprehended; and
(3) had notice that the entry was forbidden or
received notice to depart but failed to do so.
(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:
(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or
in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun was
forbidden; and
(2) the person was carrying a concealed handgun and a
license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to
carry a concealed handgun of the same category the person was
carrying.


Therefore, if the only thing forbidding you entry was your gun, and you have a CCL, that is a defense to prosecution. That doesn't mean you won't get arrested, but you would have an affirmative defense at trial.

Likely, the DA would drop the charge as it's a loser of a case.
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Re: Dallas Zoo

Postby BigBlueDodge » Sun Jun 29, 2008 1:12 pm

If their sign was a 30.05 sign, then you COULD HAVE CARRIED. The "including concealed handguns" part is for UNLICENSED people. Since you were licensed then you were absolutely legal to carry there.

The sign MUST HAVE BEEN a 30.06 to restrict you from carrying.
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Re: Dallas Zoo

Postby Russell » Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:01 pm

BigBlueDodge wrote:The sign MUST HAVE BEEN a 30.06 to restrict you from carrying.



Don't forget since it is owned/leased by a government entity 30.06 still would not apply. You could not be restricted from carrying, period.
http://www.Texas3006.com - Texas 30.06 Signage Database.
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Re: Dallas Zoo

Postby zx9rt1 » Sun Jun 29, 2008 7:41 pm

How about I email 'em? Good idea are not? I wonder if they will even respond? So many questions. I think I'll do it and see what happens.

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Re: Dallas Zoo

Postby Keith B » Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:56 pm

Most of the time it is better to let sleeping dogs lie. If you make an issue out of it, then you will bring it to the top of their attention. At that point, they can give you verbal notice. I know it is a city owned property, and 30.06 is invalid, but they can still hassle you if caught as well as potentially take you in for awhile.
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Re: Dallas Zoo

Postby zx9rt1 » Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:07 pm

This is their response to the question. I was suprised that I got a response.

Michael



Dear Mr. Leech:

Thank you for contacting the Dallas Zoological Society regarding your upcoming visit.
We deeply appreciate you checking with us before your visit regarding your Texas Concealed Handgun license. Because we are classified as an educational and amusement facility, they are not allowed.
Thanks again for checking with us. I hope you have a wonderful visit and if you have any additional questions, please feel free to contact us.



Sincerely,



Denise Thomas
Dallas Zoological Society
Database Coordinator

214-943-2771 x339

dthomas@dalzoo.org
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Re: Dallas Zoo

Postby Russell » Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:15 pm

That is very interesting.

1 - The amusement facility does not count, per subsection e of PC 30.06 (if I remember off the top of my head correctly) that states a 30.06 sign must be posted for amusement parks if they wish to restrict carry.

2 - I would really doubt the zoo would count as an educational facility. Do they hold classes every day?
http://www.Texas3006.com - Texas 30.06 Signage Database.
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