Legal age for having a handgun in your vehicle

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Venus Pax
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Re: Legal age for having a handgun in your vehicle

Postby Venus Pax » Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:07 pm

I'm glad to hear that 17-year-olds can have them. Daddy just bought Mini-Mi (youngest sister) a car.

Now, we just need to equip her with common sense, but we're finding that to be a rather difficult undertaking.
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seamusTX
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Re: Legal age for having a handgun in your vehicle

Postby seamusTX » Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:38 pm

In my opinion, if a teenager is mature enough to pilot a 2-ton vehicle that can go 100 MPH, she is mature enough to handle a firearm. The U.S. Army used to agree, until about 50 years ago.

However, as I said above, some police officers are going to arrest if they find a teenager with a handgun in the car, especially in Harris County.

A 17-year-old is going to be held to the same standard as an adult in the use of deadly force, so it's important for her to understand the seriousness of carrying. I think it would be wise for her to take the NRA handgun safety course and personal protection outside the home, not to forget Charles Cotton's use of deadly force seminar. That would really rock a teenage girl back on her heels.

Then there's the thing about learning to keep her lips zipped ...

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Re: Legal age for having a handgun in your vehicle

Postby KBCraig » Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:18 pm

seamusTX wrote:A 17-year-old is going to be held to the same standard as an adult in the use of deadly force, so it's important for her to understand the seriousness of carrying.

This is the important part.

I would never hand one of my teens the car keys and a revolver and just turn them loose without education and training on both items. The education has to include "how to interact with the police", along with a strong understanding of what their rights are, what they shouldn't say, and what they should say in response to certain questions.

My 17 year old son is absolutely no worry on defending his rights in a smooth, non-offensive way, but he lives with his mother in Arkansas (where there is no legal car carry for non-licensees). The kid is (literally, statistically) a genius, and a constitutional scholar.


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Re: Legal age for having a handgun in your vehicle

Postby Dilly » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:48 pm

Ok so I’m 16 so if I’m under standing this right I can have a pistol in my truck as long as the mag is not in it?


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Re: Legal age for having a handgun in your vehicle

Postby montgomery » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:26 am

BigBlueDodge wrote:
KBCraig wrote:There is no age limit by Texas law. Even a 16 year old driver would be legal.


I don't know if that is true. Texas law says that a child may not have access to a loaded weapon unless in the supervision of an adult. The law defines child as anyone under 17 years old. I'll have to go look up the statues. In that case, a 16year old would not be legal to have a gun in the car without an adult.

I would suggest, that anyone 17 or 18 year old that has a handgun in the car and gets pulled over by a cop will probably face some serious paranoia by the LEO. I wouldn't expect a very rosy/cheery experience in that encounter, especially if it is in the evening.


Update... Here is the law, section 46.13

§ 46.13. MAKING A FIREARM ACCESSIBLE TO A CHILD.
(a) In this section:
(1) "Child" means a person younger than 17 years of
age.
(2) "Readily dischargeable firearm" means a firearm
that is loaded with ammunition, whether or not a round is in the
chamber.
(3) "Secure" means to take steps that a reasonable
person would take to prevent the access to a readily dischargeable
firearm by a child, including but not limited to placing a firearm
in a locked container or temporarily rendering the firearm
inoperable by a trigger lock or other means.
(b) A person commits an offense if a child gains access to a
readily dischargeable firearm and the person with criminal
negligence:
(1) failed to secure the firearm; or
(2) left the firearm in a place to which the person
knew or should have known the child would gain access.
(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this
section that the child's access to the firearm:
(1) was supervised by a person older than 18 years of
age and was for hunting, sporting, or other lawful purposes;
(2) consisted of lawful defense by the child of people
or property;
(3) was gained by entering property in violation of
this code; or
(4) occurred during a time when the actor was engaged
in an agricultural enterprise.
(d) Except as provided by Subsection (e), an offense under
this section is a Class C misdemeanor.
(e) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor
if the child discharges the firearm and causes death or serious
bodily injury to himself or another person.
...


So it appears as though the parent's would get hit with a class C or class A misdemeanour if they let their 16 year old or younger kid drive a vehicle with a loaded weapon.

I don't think it is well known in Texas that a 17 year old can legally carry a gun in their car in Texas. I'm not even sure how man LEO know that. Quite honestly I would almost prefer that it stay that way. Keep it on a need to know basis. I think if more people realized this, then we would surely see more opposition to it, and a push to get the laws changed.



Agreed on all ... one sticking point is (bold added for emphasis):

Sec. 46.06. UNLAWFUL TRANSFER OF CERTAIN WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person:

(2) intentionally or knowingly sells, rents, leases, or gives or offers to sell, rent, lease, or give to any child younger than 18 years any firearm, club, or illegal knife;
(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor, except that an offense under Subsection (a)(2) is a state jail felony if the weapon that is the subject of the offense is a handgun.

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Pawpaw
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Re: Legal age for having a handgun in your vehicle

Postby Pawpaw » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:44 am

montgomery wrote:
BigBlueDodge wrote:
KBCraig wrote:There is no age limit by Texas law. Even a 16 year old driver would be legal.


I don't know if that is true. Texas law says that a child may not have access to a loaded weapon unless in the supervision of an adult. The law defines child as anyone under 17 years old. I'll have to go look up the statues. In that case, a 16year old would not be legal to have a gun in the car without an adult.

I would suggest, that anyone 17 or 18 year old that has a handgun in the car and gets pulled over by a cop will probably face some serious paranoia by the LEO. I wouldn't expect a very rosy/cheery experience in that encounter, especially if it is in the evening.


Update... Here is the law, section 46.13

§ 46.13. MAKING A FIREARM ACCESSIBLE TO A CHILD.
(a) In this section:
(1) "Child" means a person younger than 17 years of
age.
(2) "Readily dischargeable firearm" means a firearm
that is loaded with ammunition, whether or not a round is in the
chamber.
(3) "Secure" means to take steps that a reasonable
person would take to prevent the access to a readily dischargeable
firearm by a child, including but not limited to placing a firearm
in a locked container or temporarily rendering the firearm
inoperable by a trigger lock or other means.
(b) A person commits an offense if a child gains access to a
readily dischargeable firearm and the person with criminal
negligence:
(1) failed to secure the firearm; or
(2) left the firearm in a place to which the person
knew or should have known the child would gain access.
(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this
section that the child's access to the firearm:
(1) was supervised by a person older than 18 years of
age and was for hunting, sporting, or other lawful purposes;
(2) consisted of lawful defense by the child of people
or property;
(3) was gained by entering property in violation of
this code; or
(4) occurred during a time when the actor was engaged
in an agricultural enterprise.
(d) Except as provided by Subsection (e), an offense under
this section is a Class C misdemeanor.
(e) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor
if the child discharges the firearm and causes death or serious
bodily injury to himself or another person.
...


So it appears as though the parent's would get hit with a class C or class A misdemeanour if they let their 16 year old or younger kid drive a vehicle with a loaded weapon.

I don't think it is well known in Texas that a 17 year old can legally carry a gun in their car in Texas. I'm not even sure how man LEO know that. Quite honestly I would almost prefer that it stay that way. Keep it on a need to know basis. I think if more people realized this, then we would surely see more opposition to it, and a push to get the laws changed.



Agreed on all ... one sticking point is (bold added for emphasis):

Sec. 46.06. UNLAWFUL TRANSFER OF CERTAIN WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person:

(2) intentionally or knowingly sells, rents, leases, or gives or offers to sell, rent, lease, or give to any child younger than 18 years any firearm, club, or illegal knife;
(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor, except that an offense under Subsection (a)(2) is a state jail felony if the weapon that is the subject of the offense is a handgun.

How did you get to (d) without seeing (c)?

(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(2) that the transfer was to a minor whose parent or the person having legal custody of the minor had given written permission for the sale or, if the transfer was other than a sale, the parent or person having legal custody had given effective consent.
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. - John Adams

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montgomery
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Re: Legal age for having a handgun in your vehicle

Postby montgomery » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:13 am

Pawpaw wrote:
montgomery wrote:
BigBlueDodge wrote:
KBCraig wrote:There is no age limit by Texas law. Even a 16 year old driver would be legal.


I don't know if that is true. Texas law says that a child may not have access to a loaded weapon unless in the supervision of an adult. The law defines child as anyone under 17 years old. I'll have to go look up the statues. In that case, a 16year old would not be legal to have a gun in the car without an adult.

I would suggest, that anyone 17 or 18 year old that has a handgun in the car and gets pulled over by a cop will probably face some serious paranoia by the LEO. I wouldn't expect a very rosy/cheery experience in that encounter, especially if it is in the evening.


Update... Here is the law, section 46.13

§ 46.13. MAKING A FIREARM ACCESSIBLE TO A CHILD.
(a) In this section:
(1) "Child" means a person younger than 17 years of
age.
(2) "Readily dischargeable firearm" means a firearm
that is loaded with ammunition, whether or not a round is in the
chamber.
(3) "Secure" means to take steps that a reasonable
person would take to prevent the access to a readily dischargeable
firearm by a child, including but not limited to placing a firearm
in a locked container or temporarily rendering the firearm
inoperable by a trigger lock or other means.
(b) A person commits an offense if a child gains access to a
readily dischargeable firearm and the person with criminal
negligence:
(1) failed to secure the firearm; or
(2) left the firearm in a place to which the person
knew or should have known the child would gain access.
(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this
section that the child's access to the firearm:
(1) was supervised by a person older than 18 years of
age and was for hunting, sporting, or other lawful purposes;
(2) consisted of lawful defense by the child of people
or property;
(3) was gained by entering property in violation of
this code; or
(4) occurred during a time when the actor was engaged
in an agricultural enterprise.
(d) Except as provided by Subsection (e), an offense under
this section is a Class C misdemeanor.
(e) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor
if the child discharges the firearm and causes death or serious
bodily injury to himself or another person.
...


So it appears as though the parent's would get hit with a class C or class A misdemeanour if they let their 16 year old or younger kid drive a vehicle with a loaded weapon.

I don't think it is well known in Texas that a 17 year old can legally carry a gun in their car in Texas. I'm not even sure how man LEO know that. Quite honestly I would almost prefer that it stay that way. Keep it on a need to know basis. I think if more people realized this, then we would surely see more opposition to it, and a push to get the laws changed.



Agreed on all ... one sticking point is (bold added for emphasis):

Sec. 46.06. UNLAWFUL TRANSFER OF CERTAIN WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person:

(2) intentionally or knowingly sells, rents, leases, or gives or offers to sell, rent, lease, or give to any child younger than 18 years any firearm, club, or illegal knife;
(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor, except that an offense under Subsection (a)(2) is a state jail felony if the weapon that is the subject of the offense is a handgun.

How did you get to (d) without seeing (c)?

(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(2) that the transfer was to a minor whose parent or the person having legal custody of the minor had given written permission for the sale or, if the transfer was other than a sale, the parent or person having legal custody had given effective consent.



Great point - I was focused on the non-parent, non-legal custody aspect of an earlier general statement in the thread about - and I am paraphrasing here - that any 16 or 17 year old can have a handgun in a motor vehicle. My apologies for not making that clear. Upon further review, I discovered the comments were made a decade ago.

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AJSully421
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Re: Legal age for having a handgun in your vehicle

Postby AJSully421 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:30 am

We went round and round with this before.

My recollection was that 16 is a dark gray area, and 17 is perfectly fine, if the kid has their head screwed on straight.

I have a Safariland ALS holster mounted on one of their QLS attachment plates.

The receiver plate is mounted under the dash of my truck on some bent pieces of angle bracing that I bolted to the metal under there. Works great, much better than the magnet that I used before. It is also easy to remove the whole holster if I take it in for repairs.

Might be something to look at. I know every truck of mine will have this from now on. Same for my kid’s cars when they start driving in 10 years.
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Re: Legal age for having a handgun in your vehicle

Postby AdioSS » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:21 pm

This thread makes me wonder about potential legal issues that my girlfriend might face if her 19year old daughter has a pistol in her car when her 8+ year younger brothers are in it. Like, what if they stayed in the car when she went inside to pick something up? :headscratch


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Re: Legal age for having a handgun in your vehicle

Postby MeMelYup » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:05 pm

AdioSS wrote:This thread makes me wonder about potential legal issues that my girlfriend might face if her 19year old daughter has a pistol in her car when her 8+ year younger brothers are in it. Like, what if they stayed in the car when she went inside to pick something up? :headscratch

Make sure the child knows firearm safety and handling safety, and not to touch the firearm for any reason, unless specifically instructed to do so buy the adult.

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Re: Legal age for having a handgun in your vehicle

Postby C-dub » Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:31 pm

AdioSS wrote:This thread makes me wonder about potential legal issues that my girlfriend might face if her 19year old daughter has a pistol in her car when her 8+ year younger brothers are in it. Like, what if they stayed in the car when she went inside to pick something up? :headscratch

I imagine it would be the same as if a 30 year old left their 8 year old child alone in a car with a handgun in the center console or somewhere, while they went in to pay for gas or buy a soda.
I am not and have never been a LEO. My avatar is in honor of my friend, Dallas Police Sargent Michael Smith, who was murdered along with four other officers in Dallas on 7.7.2016.


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