Cities improperly posting 30.06 signs?

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Re: Cities improperly posting 30.06 signs?

Postby JP171 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:55 am

the Medical Museum is on the retail side of the street, not actually in hermann park, it is privately owned by a non profit orginization and can be posted as they see fit. just don't go there, write a letter to the board of directors that the policy is an invitation for a lawsuit


Owner and Property Information
Owner Name &
Mailing Address: MUSEUM MEDICAL SCIENCE
PO BOX 88087
HOUSTON TX 77288-0087

Legal Description: RES A BLK 1
JOHN P MCGOVERN MUSEUM
OF HEALTH & MEDICAL SCIENCE

Property Address: 1515 HERMANN DR
HOUSTON TX 77004

State Class Code Land Use Code Building Class Total Units
X2 -- Charitable Exempt 7500 -- Comm. Tabled Retail Land E 0
Land Area Building Area Net Rentable Area Neighborhood Neighborhood Group Market Area Map Facet Key Map®
74,527 SF 0 0 5903.01 0 4007 5355B 533A


Value Status Information
Capped Account Value Status Notice Date Shared CAD
No Noticed 04/27/2012 No


Exemptions and Jurisdictions
Exemption Type Districts Jurisdictions ARB Status 2011 Rate 2012 Rate Online
Tax Bill
Total
001 HOUSTON ISD Certified: 08/10/2012 1.156700 1.156700 View
040 HARRIS COUNTY Certified: 08/10/2012 0.391170 View
041 HARRIS CO FLOOD CNTRL Certified: 08/10/2012 0.028090
042 PORT OF HOUSTON AUTHY Certified: 08/10/2012 0.018560
043 HARRIS CO HOSP DIST Certified: 08/10/2012 0.192160
044 HARRIS CO EDUC DEPT Certified: 08/10/2012 0.006581
048 HOU COMMUNITY COLLEGE Certified: 08/10/2012 0.097222
061 CITY OF HOUSTON Certified: 08/10/2012 0.638750
944 GRTR SE MGMT DIST Certified: 08/10/2012 0.115000
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Re: Cities improperly posting 30.06 signs?

Postby E10 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:31 pm

The City of El Paso has posted 30.06 signs at all entrances to City Hall, and they use metal detectors on days the City Council is meeting, usually only Tuesdays. The Municipal Court of Appeals is located somewhere in the 10-story building (but I can't find anyone who can tell me where it is). But if I ignore the improper 30.06 signs, enter the building carrying my legal concealed handgun, and avoid the courtroom and associated offices as well as any meetings of governmental entities, what crime have I committed?

I have posed this question to a Deputy City Attorney and am awaiting her response.
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Re: Cities improperly posting 30.06 signs?

Postby bizarrenormality » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:23 pm

E10 wrote:But if I ignore the improper 30.06 signs, enter the building carrying my legal concealed handgun, and avoid the courtroom and associated offices as well as any meetings of governmental entities, what crime have I committed?

None that I know. I would carry in that situation but I won't be coming to bail you out for failure to conceal.
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Re: Cities improperly posting 30.06 signs?

Postby E10 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:22 pm

I visited City Hall again just today. The 30.06 signs at the rear entrance aren't within specs - the letters are less than 1" high. I pointed this out to the unarmed security guards, and they just laughed. No active metal detectors today - only on City Council meeting days, I guess. I'm considering turning this into an avocation. Might even be fun, arguing with attorneys and politicians and such.
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Re: Cities improperly posting 30.06 signs?

Postby C-dub » Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:56 pm

E10 wrote:I visited City Hall again just today. The 30.06 signs at the rear entrance aren't within specs - the letters are less than 1" high. I pointed this out to the unarmed security guards, and they just laughed. No active metal detectors today - only on City Council meeting days, I guess. I'm considering turning this into an avocation. Might even be fun, arguing with attorneys and politicians and such.

The level of fun is directly related to where the argument is taking place.
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Re: Cities improperly posting 30.06 signs?

Postby Dieseldave1 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:00 pm

Last Sunday I attended a non-sporting event at the Dell Diamond (baseball team) in Round Rock, TX. As I approached the entrance, an appropriate 30.06 was posted. However, if there was no professional sporting event that day, is it legal to CCW?
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Re: Cities improperly posting 30.06 signs?

Postby C-dub » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:04 pm

Dieseldave1 wrote:Last Sunday I attended a non-sporting event at the Dell Diamond (baseball team) in Round Rock, TX. As I approached the entrance, an appropriate 30.06 was posted. However, if there was no professional sporting event that day, is it legal to CCW?

I think the city of Round Rock owns the ballpark and leases it to the team. So, the answer would be, yes, it is legal to carry there when there is no professional or school sponsored sporting event going on and the 30.06 sign should be unenforceable.
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Re: Cities improperly posting 30.06 signs?

Postby jjordan@fpctx.edu » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:42 pm

Has anyone tested the theory that the sign has to 30.06 compliant? It would seem to me that if a business owner does not want someone to carry a concealed handgun on his premesis he has the right to make that stipulation, no matter what kind of sign he posts. I have been an instructor for a few years now and I always tell my students that if there is any kind of sign at all they should not enter the premesis with a handgun, unless they would like to be a test case. We have already established on this forum that there are a lot of LEOs who do not know the law themselves. I do not have the time or money it would probably take to fight a case like this. Does anyone know if there is any case law on this? I have not been able to find any precedents.

Sorry if this is the wrong thread to post this...
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Re: Cities improperly posting 30.06 signs?

Postby hillfighter » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:48 pm

jjordan@fpctx.edu wrote:Has anyone tested the theory that the sign has to 30.06 compliant?

It's difficult to prove a negative. Maybe you can share the list of people who were convicted of violating 30.06 and the details, and we can discuss whether or not the sign met the legal requirements for a 30.06 sign.
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Re: Cities improperly posting 30.06 signs?

Postby sjfcontrol » Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:22 am

jjordan@fpctx.edu wrote:Has anyone tested the theory that the sign has to 30.06 compliant? It would seem to me that if a business owner does not want someone to carry a concealed handgun on his premesis he has the right to make that stipulation, no matter what kind of sign he posts. I have been an instructor for a few years now and I always tell my students that if there is any kind of sign at all they should not enter the premesis with a handgun, unless they would like to be a test case. We have already established on this forum that there are a lot of LEOs who do not know the law themselves. I do not have the time or money it would probably take to fight a case like this. Does anyone know if there is any case law on this? I have not been able to find any precedents.

Sorry if this is the wrong thread to post this...


First... Welcome to the forum!

This has been discussed many times here.

Basically, there are three approaches that can be taken by an instructor.

1) "All signs are indicative of intent to restrict gun carry, and therefore should be obeyed even if non-compliant. And yadda yadda about ignorant LEOs." This does NOT agree with Texas law.

2) "Any sign that does not meet the strict definition of a 30.06 sign is meaningless to a CHL holder, and should be ignored." Although this agrees with Texas law, it may in some rare instances cause issues for the license holder.

3) "Here is what the law says about how to give effective notice that carry is not allowed: yadda, yadda, yadda. And here are some possible issues that might arise. yadda, yadda, yadda. You need to decide what you're comfortable with, and act appropriately given the tradeoffs between the risk of meeting an uninformed LEO, and the lack of the ability to protect yourself and your family."

Obviously, the third option is what I propose as the most helpful to your students. IMO, either of the first two are a disservice. Keep in mind that you are teaching adults, not children. They should be given all the relevant information, then allowed to make their own decisions. Yes, I would feel bad if a student of mine got into legal trouble by ignoring a non-compliant sign. HOWEVER, I would feel even worse if the student (or a family member) were to be seriously injured or killed because he disarmed before entering a non-compliant-signed area.
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Re: Cities improperly posting 30.06 signs?

Postby Waco1959 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:56 am

After an interesting exchange with a city employee, I was told the Waco Convention Center, City Hall, Water Offices, and other locations were marked with 30.06 signs. Like much information from city employees, it was wrong. I've started checking on the location and found:

Convention Center: Blue TABC sign at the front (main) entrance, gun buster (refers to 46.02) on the opposite side, no service entrances marked at all

City Hall: Gun buster signs on the end entrances (by the parking lots), forgot to check the main entrance by the fountain (never use it)

Water Offices: not checked yet

Ops Center: Not checked again, used to have gun busters signs

Range Hall of Fame: not checked yet
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Re: Cities improperly posting 30.06 signs?

Postby MeMelYup » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:36 pm

Rangers Hall of Fame wasn't posted 6 months ago.
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Re: Cities improperly posting 30.06 signs?

Postby bones357 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:34 pm

Texas Bexar County Commissioner office on Bander Hwy (Hwy 16). Formerly the Sylvia S. Ramos Bexar County Commissioner Office. They have a posted 30.06 sign in the front but they are just a tax collector office. ...
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Re: Cities improperly posting 30.06 signs?

Postby puma guy » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:52 pm

I just noticed 30.06 (look new) at several school parking lot entrances in Pasadena, Texas. I've been trying to catch my neighbor's son who is a school board member regarding signs at the District Ad Min building so now I have two questions. I may just write the school board.
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Re: Cities improperly posting 30.06 signs?

Postby bones357 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:55 pm

How do we go about reporting this to remedy an improperly posted sign?
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