30.06 Schertz Animal Services Department Facility

[arod757]

So I donated some of my late dog's belongings to the local Schertz Animal Services Department, a city-owned animal shelter, today. As I walked out of the building to get the second batch of donations, I noticed it -- a 30.06 sign on the window. It was on an 8.5 by 11 piece of paper. Seemed like the correct wording, but obviously non-compliant due to its size. It also said something at the top about meeting of a governmental entity. Yeah. I'd like to know what governmental entity meets at an animal shelter.

I wasn't carrying at the moment so I just finished bringing in my donations. Thought about taking them elsewhere, but I didn't want to deprive the animals there of some nice things just because some humans are stupid.

Who do you think I should contact about getting that sign taken down? I don't think the place can even be legally posted since it's owned by the City of Schertz. Any thoughts?

[ELB]

For an informal approach, I would guess calling the city manager (if Schertz has one -- I don't know how they structure their government). Maybe the mayor instead, or in addition, or if the manager gives you short shrift. I would allow a few days for the answer to percolate. If someone at the shelter just stuck it up on his/her initiative, it would take while for the bureaucracy to track this down.

The more formal approach would be a letter. And ultimately, if they are sticky about it, an Open Records Request requesting all information on the decision to post this sign at the shelter, especially as pertains to what "governmental entity" qualifies. IANAL and all that, but am pretty sure the weekly staff meeting where they sort out the work schedule and who brings donuts next week doesn't qualify. There may be some "animal control board" or such that meets periodically, but (without looking up the law) I believe the 30.06 can only be used during the meeting, and of course it has to be regulation size.

Or, given the sign does not meet the requirements of the law, we could just go on ignoring it.

[pedalman]

They can post until they are blue in the face, but it still doesn't make it binding. It's not illegal to post an invalid 30,06 sign.

[pedalman]

Perhaps some help from the Texas Government Code:

Sec. 551.001. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:

(1) "Closed meeting" means a meeting to which the public does not have access.

(2) "Deliberation" means a verbal exchange during a meeting between a quorum of a governmental body, or between a quorum of a governmental body and another person, concerning an issue within the jurisdiction of the governmental body or any public business.

(3) "Governmental body" means:

(A) a board, commission, department, committee, or agency within the executive or legislative branch of state government that is directed by one or more elected or appointed members;

(B) a county commissioners court in the state;

(C) a municipal governing body in the state;

(D) a deliberative body that has rulemaking or quasi-judicial power and that is classified as a department, agency, or political subdivision of a county or municipality;

(E) a school district board of trustees;

(F) a county board of school trustees;

(G) a county board of education;

(H) the governing board of a special district created by law;

(I) a local workforce development board created under Section 2308.253;

(J) a nonprofit corporation that is eligible to receive funds under the federal community services block grant program and that is authorized by this state to serve a geographic area of the state; and

(K) a nonprofit corporation organized under Chapter 67, Water Code, that provides a water supply or wastewater service, or both, and is exempt from ad valorem taxation under Section 11.30, Tax Code.

(4) "Meeting" means:

(A) a deliberation between a quorum of a governmental body, or between a quorum of a governmental body and another person, during which public business or public policy over which the governmental body has supervision or control is discussed or considered or during which the governmental body takes formal action; or

(B) except as otherwise provided by this subdivision, a gathering:

(i) that is conducted by the governmental body or for which the governmental body is responsible;

(ii) at which a quorum of members of the governmental body is present;

(iii) that has been called by the governmental body; and

(iv) at which the members receive information from, give information to, ask questions of, or receive questions from any third person, including an employee of the governmental body, about the public business or public policy over which the governmental body has supervision or control.

The term does not include the gathering of a quorum of a governmental body at a social function unrelated to the public business that is conducted by the body, or the attendance by a quorum of a governmental body at a regional, state, or national convention or workshop, ceremonial event, or press conference, if formal action is not taken and any discussion of public business is incidental to the social function, convention, workshop, ceremonial event, or press conference.

The term includes a session of a governmental body.

(5) "Open" means open to the public.

(6) "Quorum" means a majority of a governmental body, unless defined differently by applicable law or rule or the charter of the governmental body.

Added by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 268, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1993. Amended by Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 62, Sec. 18.23, eff. Sept. 1, 1999; Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 647, Sec. 1, eff. Aug. 30, 1999; Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 633, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 2001; Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 1004, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 2001; Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 1276, Sec. 9.012, eff. Sept. 1, 2003.

Amended by:

Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. May 22, 2007.

[seamusTX]

PC 46.035 says that a CHL holder cannot carry "at any meeting of a government entity," later amended to require posting a 30.06 sign.

The Penal Code does not define "meeting of a government entity."

The only definition that I have been able to find in the Texas Statutes is in the Open Meetings act, Government Code 551.001:

(3) "Governmental body" means:
(A) a board, commission, department, committee, or agency within the executive or legislative branch of state government that is directed by one or more elected or appointed members;
(B) a county commissioners court in the state;
(C) a municipal governing body in the state;
(D) a deliberative body that has rulemaking or quasi-judicial power and that is classified as a department, agency, or political subdivision of a county or municipality;
(E) a school district board of trustees;
(F) a county board of school trustees;
(G) a county board of education;
(H) the governing board of a special district created by law;
(I) a local workforce development board created under Section 2308.253;
(J) a nonprofit corporation that is eligible to receive funds under the federal community services block grant program and that is authorized by this state to serve a geographic area of the state; and
(K) a nonprofit corporation organized under Chapter 67, Water Code, that provides a water supply or wastewater service, or both, and is exempt from ad valorem taxation under Section 11.30, Tax Code.

(4) "Meeting" means:
(A) a deliberation between a quorum of a governmental body, or between a quorum of a governmental body and another person, during which public business or public policy over which the governmental body has supervision or control is discussed or considered or during which the governmental body takes formal action; or
(B) except as otherwise provided by this subdivision, a gathering:
(i) that is conducted by the governmental body or for which the governmental body is responsible;
(ii) at which a quorum of members of the governmental body is present;
(iii) that has been called by the governmental body; and
(iv) at which the members receive information from, give information to, ask questions of, or receive questions from any third person, including an employee of the governmental body, about the public business or public policy over which the governmental body has supervision or control.

The term does not include the gathering of a quorum of a governmental body at a social function unrelated to the public business that is conducted by the body, or the attendance by a quorum of a governmental body at a regional, state, or national convention or workshop, ceremonial event, or press conference, if formal action is not taken and any discussion of public business is incidental to the social function, convention, workshop, ceremonial event, or press conference.

The term includes a session of a governmental body.

It is clear to me that this definition means meetings such as a city council meeting that have a published agenda, etc. It does not include casual encounters of public officials, such as the city manager talking with the mayor.

However, you have to consider what the city officials and local police think the law means. If you happen to be arrested, getting then charges dropped could be expensive.

I would start with a letter to the city attorney. However, if you do that, you may identify yourself as a CHL holder who is in their eyes a troublemaker. Also, your letter and any response to it will be public records. You have the right to take action. Just be aware of the possible consequences.

- Jim

[arod757]

Well, the last thing I want is to be "known" around here. I got a ticket for going 4 miles over the speed limit in this area ON MY BIRTHDAY a few years ago. (Spare me the "you did the crime, do the time" spiel. It was my birthday, for crying out loud).

If they were anything but an animal shelter, I'd steer clear of there from now on. But, like I said before, I can't deprive a homeless animal of my donations just because their human counterparts are stupid.

[seamusTX]

DPS sends a notice to the police department when they issue a CHL to a resident of that town. I have no idea what police departments do with that information. I have never heard that they do anything other than file or discard it.

- Jim

[ralewis]

DPS sends a notice to the police department when they issue a CHL to a resident of that town. I have no idea what police departments do with that information. I have never heard that they do anything other than file or discard it.

- Jim

They do?! I've never heard this. I don't understand the purpose of doing this. Do they also get a notification when I renew my dog's license?

[wheelgun1958]

DPS sends a notice to the police department when they issue a CHL to a resident of that town. I have no idea what police departments do with that information. I have never heard that they do anything other than file or discard it.

- Jim

News to me too. I'd like to see the cite.

[seamusTX]

I didn't remember it quite right. It's not automatic. The local agency has to ask for a list:

GC §411.178. NOTICE TO LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT. On request of a local law enforcement agency, the department shall notify the agency of the licenses that have been issued to license holders who reside in the county in which the agency is located.

This is separate from inquiring whether a specific individual has a CHL as part of an investigation.

- Jim