Church Safety Team Carry (DPS lawyer says No)

[mr.72]

OK, Keith, so I get your suggestion: if you are carrying with your CHL at church, don't join the safety/security volunteer ministry/team.

But that dodges the question of what are churches supposed to do about security or safety? They have at least two or three volunteers for every paid staff member at most churches and clearly churches have a legitimate security and safety concern that would prudently require the application of a team of volunteers. So it seems that, regardless of the intent, the law as written is basically making it impossible for a church to form a safety and/or security team of volunteer congregation members in which any of the members may have a CHL and may carry.

[DoubleActionCHL]

The solution seems pretty simple. As with most things legal, how one articulates something is often more important than one was thinking or his actions.

I'd keep this "team" off the radar and maintain that it is not an organized security detail in any way. Your "schedule" is more of a coincidental decision to attend church at any given time. The fact that you're armed falls under your rights/privileges as a CHL holder, assuming you haven't been given effective notice under 30.06. Any training or coordination is also coincidental and solely a personal interest.

Document nothing. Erase this post. Destroy your hard drive!

By the way, my experience with DPS legal has been a series of non-committal and negative responses when I ask specific questions. They refuse to put themselves in a position where they might be responsible for giving you what might qualify as legal advice. They are not the best source for legal advice or interpretation of the law. My suggestion is speak to your own attorney. If you don't have one (and you should), get one.

[priusron]

Form a shooting team at church and compete at the local range. Then have the pastor or board give you letters authorizing you to carry at church (would this allow you to carry even with 30.06?) Have the letters also on file at church incase you needed to use your chl.

Ron

[DoubleActionCHL]

Form a shooting team at church and compete at the local range. Then have the pastor or board give you letters authorizing you to carry at church (would this allow you to carry even with 30.06?) Have the letters also on file at church incase you needed to use your chl.

Ron

Yes, effective consent supersedes 30.06 postings. However, the written permission might be construed as for the purpose of creating this hypothetical security team.

[Excaliber]

I'd like to go back to a question that was hinted at earlier, i.e. "two levels of teams". If the unarmed safety team knew who had CHLs and called those with CHLs for help in an escalating situation, this would appear to me to be truly a second team. Also, if a situation were to continue escalating after one with a CHL was called (specifically because he/she was known to be carrying), how likely is it that the responding CHL would be vulnerable to prosecution? I would think the best action for all would be for those with CHLs to not be identified or called and just respond as appropriate to defend themselves, their family, or others.

I call this the "distributed defense" option.

History indicates that active shooters look for positive indication that guns are prohibited in their target venue in order to be as sure as they can that there will be no effective opposition. Lack of such indication = increased risk for them, and appears to have a significant deterrent effect.

Implementation is as simple as removing the 30.06 sign if there is one.

[dac1842]

On our team we have the disclaimer that the only members of the team that are authorized to carry a weapon are those that have the leglislative authority to do so under article 2.12 of the CCP. Which defines who police officers are. IF a member of the team carries a weapon under the color of the CHL laws, then that member does so at his/her own risk and peril.

[Harley rider 55]

The mayor of Hurst is a gun-control advocate.

http://texasfred.net/archives/5081

[Keith B]

The mayor of Hurst is a gun-control advocate.

http://texasfred.net/archives/5081

Not sure what this post has to do with this topic, but there is a thread here on this http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 94&t=28444" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[dac1842]

Here is the simple out. If you are involved in a shooting at church (God forbid), then when asked by LEO what happened, the short answer is, I saw a threat to my life or the life of a third party. I took action I deemed necessary and sufficent to neutralize the threat" end of statement. Dont answer anything that is not asked. When asked a question only answer that which is asked. Ex. Are you a member of any security team? If you call yourself a safety team, then you answer no. One word answer.
I am an ex cop, I would not advise anyone to lie. Just answer the question that is asked.