CHL into banks......

[03Lightningrocks]

First off... he never said HE WAS BEING ROBBED!!!! I NEVER SAID IT WAS NOT OK TO DEFEND YOURSELF!!!

Your CHL is not a Batman license. It is for SELF DEFENSE!!! IT IS NOT SO YOU CAN STOP A BANK ROBBERY! Your not a cop... and your not Batman! Jumping into a situation where you are not aware of who is the real bad guy can get innocent folks killed. Including you!

[A-R]

Just so I understand, you are saying that if you come across someone at gun point in a parking lot. You would just stand by and watch because we dont want to be "Batman" or maybe wait until after the robber has blown thier head off so as to be justified in taking your action? I dont know about you but if I see someone held at gun point or knife point then I consider thier life to be in danger.

How do you know the person holding the gun is a "bad guy" in this scenario? What if the person holding the gun is an off-duty/undercover LEO or even another CHL who is holding the real "bad guy" at gun point until help/backup arrives?

If you see someone in a parking lot pointing a gun at another person, are you just going to shoot them? Are you going to point your gun at them and say "hey, drop your gun?!?!" What if this person turns toward you and is now pointing the gun at you, do you shoot then? What if they turn, see your gun, and shoot you - thinking YOU are a "bad guy" (perhaps the real bad guy's accomplice?).

Yes, these are all hypothetical "what if" scenarios, but they illuminate quite effectively the dangers of entering a third-party situation with you gun drawn (or ready to draw).

I'm not saying I would never use my concealed carry weapon to help a third person, but I would need A LOT more information/facts than merely Person A pointing a gun at Person B before I decided to intercede.

[03Lightningrocks]

Just so I understand, you are saying that if you come across someone at gun point in a parking lot. You would just stand by and watch because we dont want to be "Batman" or maybe wait until after the robber has blown thier head off so as to be justified in taking your action? I dont know about you but if I see someone held at gun point or knife point then I consider thier life to be in danger.

How do you know the person holding the gun is a "bad guy" in this scenario? What if the person holding the gun is an off-duty/undercover LEO or even another CHL who is holding the real "bad guy" at gun point until help/backup arrives?

If you see someone in a parking lot pointing a gun at another person, are you just going to shoot them? Are you going to point your gun at them and say "hey, drop your gun?!?!" What if this person turns toward you and is now pointing the gun at you, do you shoot then? What if they turn, see your gun, and shoot you - thinking YOU are a "bad guy" (perhaps the real bad guy's accomplice?).

Yes, these are all hypothetical "what if" scenarios, but they illuminate quite effectively the dangers of entering a third-party situation with you gun drawn (or ready to draw).

I'm not saying I would never use my concealed carry weapon to help a third person, but I would need A LOT more information/facts than merely Person A pointing a gun at Person B before I decided to intercede.

EXACTLY!!!

[wconn33]

Just so I understand, you are saying that if you come across someone at gun point in a parking lot. You would just stand by and watch because we dont want to be "Batman" or maybe wait until after the robber has blown thier head off so as to be justified in taking your action? I dont know about you but if I see someone held at gun point or knife point then I consider thier life to be in danger.

How do you know the person holding the gun is a "bad guy" in this scenario? What if the person holding the gun is an off-duty/undercover LEO or even another CHL who is holding the real "bad guy" at gun point until help/backup arrives?

If you see someone in a parking lot pointing a gun at another person, are you just going to shoot them? Are you going to point your gun at them and say "hey, drop your gun?!?!" What if this person turns toward you and is now pointing the gun at you, do you shoot then? What if they turn, see your gun, and shoot you - thinking YOU are a "bad guy" (perhaps the real bad guy's accomplice?).

Yes, these are all hypothetical "what if" scenarios, but they illuminate quite effectively the dangers of entering a third-party situation with you gun drawn (or ready to draw).

I'm not saying I would never use my concealed carry weapon to help a third person, but I would need A LOT more information/facts than merely Person A pointing a gun at Person B before I decided to intercede.

Maybe the crying old lady he is screaming give me your purse at would give him away do you think? I do believe that I am quite capable of picking out a robbery and an off duty cop making an arrest. We can intorduce thousands of what ifs into the scenario but sticking with what the OP stated he walked into an armed robbery. Im not gonna play what if with you all day. Cry all you want but I will use my weapon to defend not only myself but anyone else who I think is in danger of losing thier life call me batman if you want.

[Keith B]

Just so I understand, you are saying that if you come across someone at gun point in a parking lot. You would just stand by and watch because we dont want to be "Batman" or maybe wait until after the robber has blown thier head off so as to be justified in taking your action? I dont know about you but if I see someone held at gun point or knife point then I consider thier life to be in danger.

How do you know the person holding the gun is a "bad guy" in this scenario? What if the person holding the gun is an off-duty/undercover LEO or even another CHL who is holding the real "bad guy" at gun point until help/backup arrives?

If you see someone in a parking lot pointing a gun at another person, are you just going to shoot them? Are you going to point your gun at them and say "hey, drop your gun?!?!" What if this person turns toward you and is now pointing the gun at you, do you shoot then? What if they turn, see your gun, and shoot you - thinking YOU are a "bad guy" (perhaps the real bad guy's accomplice?).

Yes, these are all hypothetical "what if" scenarios, but they illuminate quite effectively the dangers of entering a third-party situation with you gun drawn (or ready to draw).

I'm not saying I would never use my concealed carry weapon to help a third person, but I would need A LOT more information/facts than merely Person A pointing a gun at Person B before I decided to intercede.

Maybe the crying old lady he is screaming give me your purse at would give him away do you think? I do believe that I am quite capable of picking out a robbery and an off duty cop making an arrest. We can introduce thousands of what ifs into the scenario but sticking with what the OP stated he walked into an armed robbery. Im not gonna play what if with you all day. Cry all you want but I will use my weapon to defend not only myself but anyone else who I think is in danger of losing thier life call me batman if you want.

OK Batman. (j/k)

I agree that you can play 'What if' all day long and it really doesn't get you anywhere. There are WAY too many scenarios to try and answer each one, as each time will be different. Even a location you are 100% familiar with, like your home, will have varying factors on how you will approach a situation. But, running scenarios though your head and even discussing them with others can be good training and opens you up to things you may not have thought of on your own.

In any case, if I can see exactly what is going down, and i know it's the right thing to do, I MAY intervene, but only if it will be a plus. There are times you must bite your tongue, hold your weapon in your holster and sit back without causing more problems. Rushing into any scenario just because you have a gun is a VERY bad thing to do. I learned that even as a LEO you must sit back and reconnoiter the situation before entering in guns blazing.

[A-R]

Just so I understand, you are saying that if you come across someone at gun point in a parking lot. You would just stand by and watch because we dont want to be "Batman" or maybe wait until after the robber has blown thier head off so as to be justified in taking your action? I dont know about you but if I see someone held at gun point or knife point then I consider thier life to be in danger.

How do you know the person holding the gun is a "bad guy" in this scenario? What if the person holding the gun is an off-duty/undercover LEO or even another CHL who is holding the real "bad guy" at gun point until help/backup arrives?

If you see someone in a parking lot pointing a gun at another person, are you just going to shoot them? Are you going to point your gun at them and say "hey, drop your gun?!?!" What if this person turns toward you and is now pointing the gun at you, do you shoot then? What if they turn, see your gun, and shoot you - thinking YOU are a "bad guy" (perhaps the real bad guy's accomplice?).

Yes, these are all hypothetical "what if" scenarios, but they illuminate quite effectively the dangers of entering a third-party situation with you gun drawn (or ready to draw).

I'm not saying I would never use my concealed carry weapon to help a third person, but I would need A LOT more information/facts than merely Person A pointing a gun at Person B before I decided to intercede.

Maybe the crying old lady he is screaming give me your purse at would give him away do you think? I do believe that I am quite capable of picking out a robbery and an off duty cop making an arrest. We can intorduce thousands of what ifs into the scenario but sticking with what the OP stated he walked into an armed robbery. Im not gonna play what if with you all day. Cry all you want but I will use my weapon to defend not only myself but anyone else who I think is in danger of losing thier life call me batman if you want.

At the risk of further inflaming your hostile tone, I'll just ask if the "crying old lady" could possibly be a suspect in some crime you don't know about who has just been caught by a LEO who is demanding she drop or hand over her purse (and any contraband/evidence/weapons inside).

Yes, this stuff can be "what iffed" to death, but that is precisely because YOU CAN'T possibly know all the relevant facts with enough certainty to immediately introduce deadly force into the equation of a third-party situation. Law enforcement officers are trained much more extensively than you or I in how to deal with these situations, and even they get it wrong. What training do you have to automatically distinguish between a robbery and a lawful arrest? Besides Person A pointing gun at Person B, what more do you know? Person A says "give me the bag!" - so that makes it a robbery? You're 100% certain? What if Person A is recovering stolen property? Now which is the bad guy, Person A or Person B?

Again, I'm not saying there is NEVER a third-party scenario that you might be justified in intervening. There are some scenarios I can envision in which the bad guy/good guy identification could happen very quickly. But that just leads into the question of whether your intervening could do more harm than good, not only to yourself, but also to innocent bystanders or to "Person B".

The "don't be Batman" caution you'll see tossed out quite often on this site specifically refers to this scenario of swooping in with a concealed gun to be the "hero" that saves the day. It is a VERY RISKY action even for well-trained LEOs to take, and that much more risky for someone whom (I can only assume) has less training.

To be clear, I'm not advocating a 100% "do nothing" (or "only be a witness") stance. Just saying that these scenarios in real life are never as clear-cut and black-n-white as they seem to be while typing on an internet forum.

[A-R]

OK Batman. (j/k)

I agree that you can play 'What if' all day long and it really doesn't get you anywhere. There are WAY too many scenarios to try and answer each one, as each time will be different. Even a location you are 100% familiar with, like your home, will have varying factors on how you will approach a situation. But, running scenarios though your head and even discussing them with others can be good training and opens you up to things you may not have thought of on your own.

In any case, if I can see exactly what is going down, and i know it's the right thing to do, I MAY intervene, but only if it will be a plus. There are times you must bite your tongue, hold your weapon in your holster and sit back without causing more problems. Rushing into any scenario just because you have a gun is a VERY bad thing to do. I learned that even as a LEO you must sit back and reconnoiter the situation before entering in guns blazing.

@Keith B

as always, yours is a reasoned and respected voice of experience

[speedsix]

"...I agree that you can play 'What if' all day long and it really doesn't get you anywhere. There are WAY too many scenarios to try and answer each one, as each time will be different. Even a location you are 100% familiar with, like your home, will have varying factors on how you will approach a situation. But, running scenarios though your head and even discussing them with others can be good training and opens you up to things you may not have thought of on your own.

In any case, if I can see exactly what is going down, and i know it's the right thing to do, I MAY intervene, but only if it will be a plus. There are times you must bite your tongue, hold your weapon in your holster and sit back without causing more problems. Rushing into any scenario just because you have a gun is a VERY bad thing to do. I learned that even as a LEO you must sit back and reconnoiter the situation before entering in guns blazing. "

Keith B's post I put here in quotes...I agree with it...and second paragraph especially...I've had two situations where the person I dealt with had no idea I had a gun...one had accidentally fired a gun in his pocket in a restaurant...and one was showing his dorsals and threatening violence over an injury he had set himself up for...if I had stated that I had a gun in the first...it would have been macho and unnecessary...I got the gun without violence and held the young man for the police...if I had stated I had a gun or produced it in the second, I would likely have had to use it...the guy was berserk with anger and his fingers were hurting...calm, reasoned discussion, knowing that I could have handled the situation if it escalated...allowed me to DEescalate it...and defuse it...carrying gives us more options, and having that ace card doesn't mean we need to play it...it just helps us think a bit clearer and act more responsibly...