Arizona to allow concealed weapons without permit

CHL discussions that do not fit into more specific topics

Moderators: carlson1, Charles L. Cotton

User avatar
The Annoyed Man
Senior Member
Posts: 26885
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:59 pm
Location: North Richland Hills, Texas
Contact:

Arizona to allow concealed weapons without permit

Post by The Annoyed Man »

Yahoo News
By PAUL DAVENPORT and JONATHAN J. COOPER, Associated Press Writers Paul Davenport And Jonathan J. Cooper, Associated Press Writers – 1 hr 20 mins ago

PHOENIX – Favoring the constitutional right to bear arms over others' concerns about gun safety, Gov. Jan Brewer on Friday signed into law a bill making Arizona the third state allowing people to carry a concealed weapon without requiring a permit.

The measure takes effect 90 days after the current legislative session ends, which likely puts the effective date in July or August.

"I believe this legislation not only protects the Second Amendment rights of Arizona citizens, but restores those rights as well," Brewer, a Republican, said in a statement.

Alaska and Vermont now do not require permits to carry concealed weapons.

By eliminating the permit requirement, the Arizona legislation will allow people 21 or older to forego background checks and classes that are now required.

Supporters say the bill promotes constitutional rights and allows people to protect themselves from criminals, while critics worry it will lead to more shootings as people with less training have fewer restrictions on carrying weapons.

Some police officials are concerned the law will lead to more accidental gun discharges from people untrained in firearm safety, or that shooters in stressful situations will accidentally strike innocent bystanders with stray bullets.

"I know a lot of 21-year-olds; the maturity level is gravely concerning sometimes," said El Mirage Police Chief Mike Frazier, an Arizona Association of Chiefs of Police board member. "If you're going to be carrying a weapon you should know what the law is and how to use it."

However, the measure was supported by police unions representing rank-and-file officers, who said their best friend on the streets is a law-abiding citizen equipped to protect themselves or others.

The police chiefs group initially opposed the bill but then took a neutral stance after some provisions were changed at their request. Brewer's office also participated in negotiations on changes to the bill.

A Democratic leader, Rep. Kyrsten Sinema, of Phoenix, said the bill deprives law enforcement of a tool "to separate good guys from the bad guys." With a permit requirement, police encountering a person with a concealed gun but no permit had reason to suspect that person was not a law-abiding citizen, she said.

The Arizona Citizens Defense League, a gun-rights group that lobbied for passage of the "constitutional carry" bill, said gun owners foregoing permits still should get training. "The heaviest thing about wearing a firearm is the responsibility that comes with it," the group said.

Arizona's permissive gun laws gained national attention last year when a man openly carried a semiautomatic rifle to a Phoenix protest outside a speech by President Barack Obama.

Nearly all adults can already carry a weapon openly in Arizona, and supporters of looser laws argue that gun owners shouldn't face additional restrictions just because they want to hide the weapon.

Currently, carrying a hidden firearm without a permit is a misdemeanor punishable by up to six months in jail and a fine of up to $2,500.

Forty-five other states require permits for hidden guns, and two states — Illinois and Wisconsin — prohibit them altogether.

Federal law requires anyone buying a gun from a licensed dealer to undergo a background check, but that requirement does not apply to sales by individuals who aren't dealers. Arizona's law won't change that.

Under the Arizona legislation, people carrying a concealed weapon will be required to tell a police officer that if asked, and the officer can temporarily take the weapon while communicating with the person.

More than 154,000 people have permits to carry a concealed weapon in Arizona.

The bill acted on by Brewer was the first attempt to lift the permit requirement to reach an Arizona governor's desk.

Brewer's predecessor, Democrat Janet Napolitano, in 2007 vetoed two related bills. One would have reduced penalties for carrying a concealed weapon without a permit. The other would have allowed a person without a permit to carry a gun largely concealed as long as any part of it or its holster was visible.

Brewer in 2008 signed into law a bill allowing a person with a permit to take a gun into a restaurant or bar serving alcohol as long as the establishment doesn't prohibit it and the person isn't drinking alcohol. Napolitano vetoed a similar bill in 2005.
I hope we see more of this. That said, is anyone surprised about the reporter's bias?
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”

― G. Michael Hopf, "Those Who Remain"

#TINVOWOOT
blue
Senior Member
Posts: 249
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:37 pm
Location: DFW

Re: Arizona to allow concealed weapons without permit

Post by blue »

Absolutely Beautiful!!!

OK Texas - Lets go for it!

****Constitutional Carry 2011****

:cheers2:
Frost
Senior Member
Posts: 354
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:36 am
Location: Houston

Re: Arizona to allow concealed weapons without permit

Post by Frost »

The gif is already updated. Cool

Image
It can happen here.
chabouk
Banned
Posts: 1219
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:01 am

Re: Arizona to allow concealed weapons without permit

Post by chabouk »

I think this is an excellent counter-argument to those who worry that there's no political will in Texas to legalize open carry. I've read several opinions pointing out that no state has ever gone from concealed-only to open carry. Well, Arizona was very late to the concealed carry game, yet they just completely eliminated the need for a license. That's a pretty drastic change; less than a decade ago there was no such thing as legal concealed carry in Arizona, and now they've gone to the Alaska system.
User avatar
USA1
Senior Member
Posts: 7412
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:37 pm
Location: Tomball ,Texas
Contact:

Re: Arizona to allow concealed weapons without permit

Post by USA1 »

Cool map Frost. I stared at that for a full two minutes. :mrgreen:

So if Texas follows suite will I get a pro rated refund? ;-)
Glock Armorer - S&W M&P Armorer
User avatar
AEA
Senior Member
Posts: 5110
Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 12:00 pm
Location: North Texas

Re: Arizona to allow concealed weapons without permit

Post by AEA »

I of course like this but I have a few concerns......

1. The safety issue of just anyone carrying a gun without any necessary training or even knowledge about a gun scares me a little.

2. But my biggest concern is that Texas and other States may go to this system and dismantle their CHL process. I am afraid that it would be much easier for NoBama (and others like him) to revoke these "privileges" based on #1 above than with the system we have now. If they did that (and it seems they can do whatever they want) and there was no CHL to fall back on, we would be unable to "legally" carry at all.

3. I feel sorry for the LEO's who will get lots of "Man with a gun" calls that they have to check out. With this happening, and no CHL Card to back up your "status", you may face more "rides" and time until "status" could be determined. With a CHL card, it is simply a matter of showing the card and walking (in most cases).

4. Those people that take advantage of this new law and carry without a CHL will have reciprocity only in those States that have the same system (too few now).

There are of course other concerns that I have not addressed here but I think you get the idea.........
Could it really be better?.........Or worse?
Alan - ANYTHING I write is MY OPINION only.
Certified Curmudgeon - But, my German Shepherd loves me!
NRA-Life, USN '65-'69 & '73-'79: RM1
1911's RULE!
User avatar
Oldgringo
Senior Member
Posts: 11203
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:15 pm
Location: Pineywoods of east Texas

Re: Arizona to allow concealed weapons without permit

Post by Oldgringo »

...However, the measure was supported by police unions representing rank-and-file officers, who said their best friend on the streets is a law-abiding citizen equipped to protect themselves or others....
Neither the police nor the US government have been able to protect the citizens of Arizona from the rampant killings and kidnappings occassioned by the failed war on drugs and drug dealers.

IANAL; however, This appears to be a courageous step in the right direction that is securely founded (armed militia) in the Second Amendment which encourages the citizenry at chance at self-protection. The other border states should take heed and perhaps follow suit.

EDIT:

verb change from "allows" to "encourages"
Last edited by Oldgringo on Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
The Annoyed Man
Senior Member
Posts: 26885
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:59 pm
Location: North Richland Hills, Texas
Contact:

Re: Arizona to allow concealed weapons without permit

Post by The Annoyed Man »

AEA wrote:I of course like this but I have a few concerns......
Let me play devil's advocate and address those concerns...
AEA wrote:1. The safety issue of just anyone carrying a gun without any necessary training or even knowledge about a gun scares me a little.
Do you think that is not happening in Texas now? If yes, then are you a little scared about it, or do you worry about it much at all?
AEA wrote:2. But my biggest concern is that Texas and other States may go to this system and dismantle their CHL process. I am afraid that it would be much easier for NoBama (and others like him) to revoke these "privileges" based on #1 above than with the system we have now. If they did that (and it seems they can do whatever they want) and there was no CHL to fall back on, we would be unable to "legally" carry at all.
Texas CHL law is based on the notion that government can regulate the RKBA. Arizona's new law affirms the 2nd Amendment and is based on the notion that government has no business regulating enumerated rights. It is easier for a government that assumes that it can regulate an enumerated right to declare that the thing which it has "permitted" is no longer working out and it will no longer permit it, than it is for a government which has affirmed an enumerated right and removed all regulation of it to declare that an enumerated right is null and void.
AEA wrote:3. I feel sorry for the LEO's who will get lots of "Man with a gun" calls that they have to check out. With this happening, and no CHL Card to back up your "status", you may face more "rides" and time until "status" could be determined. With a CHL card, it is simply a matter of showing the card and walking (in most cases).
I do too, but at some point those calls will taper out as those whose underwear is worn too tightly begin to calm down and get used to seeing it. Those that can't adapt will move to California.
AEA wrote:4. Those people that take advantage of this new law and carry without a CHL will have reciprocity only in those States that have the same system (too few now).
That is true... ...but then they can always try to get non-resident permits for states they intend to carry into. Another thing that Arizona can do (and may be doing for all I know... I haven't read the actual text of the law) is still issue carry permits to those who want them, with the same requirements in place as before, so that permit holders will still have reciprocity with the same states as before. For the rest of Arizona residents who have no intention of traveling with their gun, it will not be necessary to obtain the permit.
AEA wrote:There are of course other concerns that I have not addressed here but I think you get the idea.........
Could it really be better?.........Or worse?
I guess my point is... we don't really know if it is better or worse yet.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”

― G. Michael Hopf, "Those Who Remain"

#TINVOWOOT
longhorn_92
Senior Member
Posts: 1621
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:07 pm

Re: Arizona to allow concealed weapons without permit

Post by longhorn_92 »

[quote="USA1"]Cool map Frost. I stared at that for a full two minutes. :mrgreen:

So if Texas follows suite will I get a pro rated refund? ;-)[/quote]





All I could think about was this picture...

Image
“If you try to shoot me, I will have to shoot you back, and I promise you I won’t miss!”

NRA Endowment Member
TSRA Member
User avatar
AEA
Senior Member
Posts: 5110
Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 12:00 pm
Location: North Texas

Re: Arizona to allow concealed weapons without permit

Post by AEA »

The Annoyed Man wrote: I guess my point is... we don't really know if it is better or worse yet.
Exactly :tiphat:
Alan - ANYTHING I write is MY OPINION only.
Certified Curmudgeon - But, my German Shepherd loves me!
NRA-Life, USN '65-'69 & '73-'79: RM1
1911's RULE!
User avatar
flintknapper
Banned
Posts: 4962
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:40 pm
Location: Deep East Texas

Re: Arizona to allow concealed weapons without permit

Post by flintknapper »

OH NO..................! :eek6


Now every business in Arizona will immediately put up "No guns allowed" signs to disallow those who choose to carry from entering. :roll:

Let's watch this one carefully folks, and when you DON'T see it happening......please re-examine that same fear about "open carry/no permit required" if those were to become law in Texas.

Most of the public doesn't care. The few that would have fainting spells (at the very thought) will get over it....or can move to California.

Sorry, but gun owners all across America need to stand up and be a little more aggressive about what we want.

GOOD FOR ARIZONA!
Spartans ask not how many, but where!
User avatar
Keith B
Moderator
Posts: 18503
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:29 pm

Re: Arizona to allow concealed weapons without permit

Post by Keith B »

This is a little different thing here folks. Arizona has always had open carry (visible), and had licensed concealed carry (invisible). The only difference now it is unlicensed concealed carry (invisible). It is totally different than going from no open carry to open carry allowed (visible.) Most people will not be concerned about what they can't see. However, if you start seeing guns pop up all over the place on hips when it has not been legal before, you will get a lot more reaction. I am not anti-open carry, but do think if it is introduced there would be a lot of fallout from the compromises and restrictions that would be implemented.

Now, as far as unlicensed concealed carry, as much as I feel we have the right to bear arms per the 2nd amendment (open carry), I have a problem with this. A LEO used to have something that they could arrest a thug on (concealed carrying without a license) if the gun fell through his baggy pants and was seen. Now, with unrestricted carry of any kind, even if it falls out or it shows, the LEO can't do anything about it. Yeah, I know, it is a restriction, but one that I was willing to live with. Now, if they want to make it no fee licensing, then OK, that at least says you have been checked out and are a law abiding citizen with a clean record and have something to show you are an honest person (or at least crafty enough to have not gotten caught yet. ;-) )
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member

Psalm 82:3-4
User avatar
Bart
Senior Member
Posts: 718
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:23 pm
Location: Deep in the Heart
Contact:

Re: Arizona to allow concealed weapons without permit

Post by Bart »

flintknapper wrote:OH NO..................! :eek6


Now every business in Arizona will immediately put up "No guns allowed" signs to disallow those who choose to carry from entering. :roll:

Let's watch this one carefully folks, and when you DON'T see it happening......please re-examine that same fear about "open carry/no permit required" if those were to become law in Texas.

Most of the public doesn't care. The few that would have fainting spells (at the very thought) will get over it....or can move to California.
I support open carry in Texas. It is more important to me than carrying in schools.

However, Arizona will now allow unlicensed concealed carry. They had unlicensed open carry for at least 20 years.
flintknapper wrote:Sorry, but gun owners all across America need to stand up and be a little more aggressive about what we want.

GOOD FOR ARIZONA!
This I agree with.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
RHenriksen
Senior Member
Posts: 2058
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:59 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Arizona to allow concealed weapons without permit

Post by RHenriksen »

The Annoyed Man wrote:Another thing that Arizona can do (and may be doing for all I know... I haven't read the actual text of the law) is still issue carry permits to those who want them, with the same requirements in place as before, so that permit holders will still have reciprocity with the same states as before. For the rest of Arizona residents who have no intention of traveling with their gun, it will not be necessary to obtain the permit.
That's my understanding as well. Makes perfect sense; AZ leaves their existing CHL permitting process in place, not because *AZ* wants to regulate people's 2A rights, but as assistance to their citizens who want to travel to less-enlightened states.
I'll quit carrying a gun when they make murder and armed robbery illegal

Houston Technology Consulting
soup-to-nuts IT infrastructure design, deployment, and support for SMBs
User avatar
Oldgringo
Senior Member
Posts: 11203
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:15 pm
Location: Pineywoods of east Texas

Re: Arizona to allow concealed weapons without permit

Post by Oldgringo »

As I hinted at above: given the rampant and apparently uncontrollable crime along Arizona's southern border, this move on the part of the Gov. may be about a little more than our RKBA and state permits/licenses, etc. You reckon?

Speaking of Arizona, Barry Goldwater is the first guy I voted for to be POTUS and McCain was the last. Is this a small world or what?
Post Reply

Return to “General Texas CHL Discussion”