can you still do p2p trades of guns at dfw gun shows?

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can you still do p2p trades of guns at dfw gun shows?

Postby drjoker » Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:23 pm

Can you still trade your gun for someone else's (non-FFL) gun at a DFW gun show? Of course, I will make sure that the person has a valid CHL if I am not taking down their name/address or has a valid driver's license if I am taking down their info. That will reasonably ensure that I am not selling to a "straw buyer" or a non-eligible person.

Or has all the gun shows stopped person to person (non-FFL) trading? I want to swap a gun I don't want for a gun that I do want at a local gun show. Can that be done? Thanks.
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Re: can you still do p2p trades of guns at dfw gun shows?

Postby aaangel » Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:35 pm

yeah you can but why? when you have this forum. so much easier.... .02
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Re: can you still do p2p trades of guns at dfw gun shows?

Postby Beiruty » Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:42 pm

If you can see a valid CHL why not?
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Re: can you still do p2p trades of guns at dfw gun shows?

Postby drjoker » Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:59 pm

Beiruty wrote:If you can see a valid CHL why not?


At a recent Austin gun show, the BATF and APD posted that the gun show operators, in cooperation with those government entities has requested that you don't do any gun trading with non-FFL at the show. I was wondering if this bull stuff has spread to other Texas gun shows?

I know what I want to do is legal, but if the gun show operators don't allow it, then I can't do it as they can ask me to leave since it is THEIR gun show. I also don't want to find out at the door because driving 30-60 miles will cost me big bucks with my gas guzzler. If someone would let me know before I go, that would be great.

Thanks,

P.S. this is what I'm referring to:
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Re: can you still do p2p trades of guns at dfw gun shows?

Postby Beiruty » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:07 pm

i find it counter productive to buy firearms from gun shows. Best deal are online or from Academy. for used firearms you can get great deals from this site.
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Re: can you still do p2p trades of guns at dfw gun shows?

Postby Crossfire » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:35 pm

I was at the last gun show in Fort Worth. Saw lots of individuals walking around with guns for sale or trade. So, apparently, no problems with non-FFL sales in Fort Worth.
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Re: can you still do p2p trades of guns at dfw gun shows?

Postby MadMonkey » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:42 pm

?! That's ridiculous... is there any basis for that rule?
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Re: can you still do p2p trades of guns at dfw gun shows?

Postby drjoker » Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:51 am

MadMonkey wrote:?! That's ridiculous... is there any basis for that rule?


No basis whatsoever. The show operators bowed under pressure from the BATF and APD. They were not breaking any laws at all. At the show where this sign was posted, the BATF arrested one of the vendors for selling a gun to an illegal immigrant with a Texas driver's license. It is kinda controversial. Official info sources say that he was selling to straw buyers. Unofficial sources say that the charges were trumped up charges due to his telling BATF agents where they could stick it when they requested that he stop selling guns at the the gun show since he was not a FFL. The truth is probably somewhere in-between. He probably angered the BATF agents and they worked their hardest to entrap him. Being that he was so stupid as to make a federal agency angry, it's also safe to say that he was stupid enough to get entrapped. Instead of insulting them, he should've politely told them that he would be extra careful not to sell to any uneligible buyers but he does have a right to liquidate his private collection.

So, I was wondering if the BATF has posted that dreaded sign at other gun shows, too?

Thanks,
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Re: can you still do p2p trades of guns at dfw gun shows?

Postby RiverCity.45 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:11 am

drjoker wrote:No basis whatsoever.

I think there is a basis, it just happens to be profit. By limiting the sales to those registered at the show, the venue can increase the sales for the vendors. It's as simple as that.
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Re: can you still do p2p trades of guns at dfw gun shows?

Postby rm9792 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:57 am

drjoker wrote:Can you still trade your gun for someone else's (non-FFL) gun at a DFW gun show? Of course, I will make sure that the person has a valid CHL if I am not taking down their name/address or has a valid driver's license if I am taking down their info. That will reasonably ensure that I am not selling to a "straw buyer" or a non-eligible person.

Or has all the gun shows stopped person to person (non-FFL) trading? I want to swap a gun I don't want for a gun that I do want at a local gun show. Can that be done? Thanks.


This will do nothing to prevent a straw purchase (straw trade?). Chl isnt a magical good guy insurance card. It does ensure a purchase by a non-felon at the time of issuance. I would trust your gut more than plastic when making a sale. I have walked away from some sales (maybe erroneously) from a bad feeling about the person. You do need to ensure they are a Texas resident and ID is your best choice.
If they stop FTF sales in Houston then I would stop attending, they are the reason I go. As far as parking lots go, just move over 1 lot.
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Re: can you still do p2p trades of guns at dfw gun shows?

Postby OldCannon » Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:28 am

Doesn't seem ridiculous. The ATF is being very aggressive about private gun sales:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/09/09/te ... d-illegal/

Read what you want into the article.
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Re: can you still do p2p trades of guns at dfw gun shows?

Postby rm9792 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:47 am

It dang well is ridiculous. Ftf sales are legal as is selling in a parking lot. How are private sellers going to use a dealer? They would have to pay a fee or sell to
the dealer first which would kill the incentive for the sale.
Last edited by rm9792 on Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: can you still do p2p trades of guns at dfw gun shows?

Postby Hoosier Daddy » Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:18 pm

rm9792 wrote:It dang well is ridiculous. Ftf sales are legal as is selling in a parking lot. How are private sellers going to use a dealer? They would habe to pay a fee or sell to he dealer first which would kill the incentive for the sale.

That's probably a big part of why the dealers aren't making a stink.

From their standpoint, doing the paperwork, NICS, and charging a fee for a person-to-person sale is not much different than doing the paperwork, NICS, and charging a fee when you order something from gunbroker or Bud's.

The risk from the promoter's standpoint is people might stop coming to the shows. However, if they're the only game in town, that lowers the risk because people can't go to their competitors' shows instead.
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Re: can you still do p2p trades of guns at dfw gun shows?

Postby Katygunnut » Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:18 pm

Hoosier Daddy wrote:
rm9792 wrote:It dang well is ridiculous. Ftf sales are legal as is selling in a parking lot. How are private sellers going to use a dealer? They would habe to pay a fee or sell to he dealer first which would kill the incentive for the sale.

That's probably a big part of why the dealers aren't making a stink.

From their standpoint, doing the paperwork, NICS, and charging a fee for a person-to-person sale is not much different than doing the paperwork, NICS, and charging a fee when you order something from gunbroker or Bud's.

The risk from the promoter's standpoint is people might stop coming to the shows. However, if they're the only game in town, that lowers the risk because people can't go to their competitors' shows instead.


People that go to the shows to sell guns can and will use means other than gun shows. The gun shows compete online forums (including this one) for private sales. Its not like their competition is limited to other gun shows.
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Re: can you still do p2p trades of guns at dfw gun shows?

Postby The Annoyed Man » Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:21 pm

drjoker wrote:
Beiruty wrote:If you can see a valid CHL why not?


At a recent Austin gun show...

Yeah, but that's Austin. Anywhere else in Texas than the Buzzerkely of the Southwest, and you'd never see that flier.
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