Texas Law Shield

CHL discussions that do not fit into more specific topics

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Re: Texas Law Shield

Postby steveincowtown » Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:44 am

IMHO, getting TLS is the equivalent of hiring a Paramedic to follow you around in case you are struck by lightning. Yes, it would be nice to have access to immediate care if your were struck, but the chance are so remote that the benefit outweighs the cost.
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Re: Texas Law Shield

Postby zero4o3 » Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:31 pm

steveincowtown wrote:IMHO, getting TLS is the equivalent of hiring a Paramedic to follow you around in case you are struck by lightning. Yes, it would be nice to have access to immediate care if your were struck, but the chance are so remote that the benefit outweighs the cost.

the service is about 10 dollars a month thats 120 a year, and would likley be be less in 20 years then what it would cost to go to court and pay out of pocket.

that being said, I am currently not a memeber, but I spend well more then that a month on junk I have no need for and could easily justify the 10 dollars a month for a what if even if its a one in a million chance

to say the benefits outweigh the cost, in my eyes, is giving that 10 dollars more value then its worth.
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Re: Texas Law Shield

Postby steveincowtown » Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:54 pm

Not to be overly simplistic, but any type of insurance has a pretty simple business model. Take in more premiums than you pay out claims. At $10 a month I would suspect that the Lawyers at TSL also know how slim the chances are that you will need their services. As has been posted elsewhere, I would however have a serious discussion with a lawyer about how to act, etc. Just as you would consult an attorney before any major life chage (Divorce, Writing a Will, etc.).
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Re: Texas Law Shield

Postby GrayGhost » Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:34 pm

I met with a gentleman from TLS at a recent gun show in Dallas. I was led to believe that, as a member, if you were arrested while legally carrying your firearm in the state of Texas, you would be legally defended by TLS without additional fees being imposed. I do not speak for them, nor am I affiliated with them. This was just my understanding of the terms. I would like to know more and if my understanding is correct.
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Re: Texas Law Shield

Postby G26ster » Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:40 pm

According to their web site, you are only covered if you USE your gun. When I read their contract a while back, that was the case also. As far as I know it does not cover arrests for any other gun related reasons other than USE.
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Re: Texas Law Shield

Postby Bart » Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:03 pm

G26ster wrote:According to their web site, you are only covered if you USE your gun. When I read their contract a while back, that was the case also. As far as I know it does not cover arrests for any other gun related reasons other than USE.

What does USE mean? Shoot? Display? Carry?
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Re: Texas Law Shield

Postby G26ster » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:04 pm

Bart wrote:
G26ster wrote:According to their web site, you are only covered if you USE your gun. When I read their contract a while back, that was the case also. As far as I know it does not cover arrests for any other gun related reasons other than USE.

What does USE mean? Shoot? Display? Carry?


When I spoke to one of their attorney's (he was one of the partners in the firm) at a DFW area gun show I specifically asked if the plan covered things like arrests for failure to conceal. I was told "No." Personally, I don't think legally carrying under your CHL constitutes "use" of a weapon, and I don't think anyone could be charged with "use of a weapon" by simply legally carrying one. MHO
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Re: Texas Law Shield

Postby bai78 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:49 am

Sub'd to hear more on the subject. I first encountered them at a gunshow in Mesquite earlier this month. Perhaps, they'll be at the Ft. Worth show again this weekend to provide additional information.
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Re: Texas Law Shield

Postby Jumping Frog » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:58 am

zero4o3 wrote:the service is about 10 dollars a month thats 120 a year, and would likley be be less in 20 years then what it would cost to go to court and pay out of pocket.

If you are involved in a self defense shooting, do you really think you'll receive $50,000 worth of defense for a $120 premium?

I wouldn't want that shoddy of defense when my life is on the line.
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Re: Texas Law Shield

Postby Cobra Medic » Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:50 pm

Jumping Frog wrote:If you are involved in a self defense shooting, do you really think you'll receive $50,000 worth of defense for a $120 premium?

If your house burns down, do you think you will get a hundred thousand dollars of repairs for a few hundred dollars premium?
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Re: Texas Law Shield

Postby Jumping Frog » Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:21 pm

Cobra Medic wrote:
Jumping Frog wrote:If you are involved in a self defense shooting, do you really think you'll receive $50,000 worth of defense for a $120 premium?

If your house burns down, do you think you will get a hundred thousand dollars of repairs for a few hundred dollars premium?

Not the same at all.

House insurance is true insurance, a regulated industry. Not these legal plans.
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Re: Texas Law Shield

Postby dac1842 » Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:42 am

What might be adding to some confusion is that one of the pre paid legal companies is Pre Paid Legal Services. Regardless of which company one chooses the companies are regulated by Texas Department of Licensing and Regulations. They are no longer considered "insurance" therefore are not under the jurisdiction of the Texas Department of Insurance.

Read the fine print of any of them carefully. Make sure you read the limitations and exclusions clause. What is not covered might be more important than what they do cover.

WIth Pre Paid Legal services while you have certain amount of trial hours that accumulate in the first 5 years, up to 340 hours, in case you are sued, the fine print states that upon review by the law firm it must be determined that the case has a good chance of a favorable outcome. In the instance we are referring to here it would have to a clean shooting for them to defend you. Otherwise they still might but instead of being a covered event, it would qualify for the 25% discount.

Remember this part, though the law states that when a CHL holder is involved in a clean shooting that he/she cannot be held liable in civil court that does not mean you cannot be sued. You probably will be. The attitude of many lawyers is sue anyway, most will settle and get some $$ just to get rid of the case. The sad part is, they are right. I hope I don't offend anyone, but Plaintiff Personal Injury lawyers are THE primary reason we have high insurance costs at all levels.
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Re: Texas Law Shield

Postby thatguy » Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:58 am

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Brian Mobley wrote:I would like to qualify the fact that I am involved with TLS as they discuss part of the Texas penal code in my CHL classes. I have been working with them for a little over a year now and have watched thier client base grow.There are two things that I have decided about them. First and foremost I have mad a consciense decision to use deadly force in a given situation (God forbid that happens) regardless of my "legal coverage". Second, it is a service where if I need them I call one of their attorneys who are on stand by 24/7. It is not a pre-paid legal service, it is truly a retainer for a lawyer. The fact is if anyone is involved in a shooting the police will show up and we will need an attorney. This is not the time to have to find one.

God Bless and Be Safe,

Brian Mobley

CHL Instructor
CHL Holder for 13 years


Why do you say it's not pre-paid legal? It is my understanding that the fee paid to Texas Law Shield is a flat fee annually. It's not a retainer unless it's a deposit against future billings.

If you are involved with TLS, please let TexasCHLforum Members know what is not covered; i.e. what will a defendant have to pay for himself or do without at trial. It has also been reported that one of these programs has a clause that allows them to cancel the agreement at any time. Is that TLS?

Again, I'm not recommending to buy or not buy such coverage, but if people are going to pitch these programs here on TexasCHLforum, I want to make sure our Members are thoroughly informed.

Chas.


Hi Charles and forum Members,

I stated that TLS is on "retainer" becasue, 1. All of the attorneys that have spoken in our class have repeated that they are not pre-paid legal and are in fact on retainer. 2. The first sentence on my contract reads, Client hereby employs and retains the Firm for representaion and the Firm hereby accepts this employement, for the limited purpose set out in the contract.

Below is an excerpt of coverage from a TLS contract. The term "Micro Retainer" is used but I am not sure what that means legally.

A. What is Covered, ALL charges for fees for attorney time in connection with the Firm's representaion of Client in any criminal procedure in the Sate of Texas arising from the client's use of his or her handgun.

B What is NOT covered, Any expenses associated with investigators, expert wtnesses, witnesses, or other persons necessary to assist in the defense of the case, bail bonds, or other court fees, in any.

I am not so much a supporter of TLS as I am in educating the public and myself on what happens after a shooting. Two years ago I probably would have told the police what I think happened if I was involved in a self-defense shooting and being the Good Guy everything would be ok. Now I think would call 911, get the police and an ambulance, hang up the phone and call my attorney, just like a LEO will do if they are involved in a shoooting. (I am not suggesting that CHLer's are LEO's).

Thanks for listening to me,

Brian Mobley

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Re: Texas Law Shield

Postby ELB » Sat Jan 01, 2011 3:00 pm

Hi Brian,

Thanks for the additional info -- actual specifics help.

I have to say that these two statements:

1. All of the attorneys that have spoken in our class have repeated that they are not pre-paid legal and are in fact on retainer.


A. What is Covered, ALL charges for fees for attorney time in connection with the Firm's representaion of Client in any criminal procedure in the Sate of Texas arising from the client's use of his or her handgun.


are not logically reconcilable in my mind unless "pre-paid" and "retainer" mean something very different from what I think they do. The term "Micro-Retainer" is also troublesome. If you get all your lawyer time paid for with the $120/year premium, then it seems to me it is "pre-paid" regardless of what they said in the class (and that would be troublesome also). If they are claiming it is a retainer because you have to pay extra for expert witnesses and all that, that seems a little...indirect.

This sentence also makes me wonder:
Client hereby employs and retains the Firm for representaion and the Firm hereby accepts this employement, for the limited purpose set out in the contract.

Are you required to use the TLS attorney if you get coverage from TLS? Are you required to use the TLS attorney exclusively? I doubt any attorney wants his client bringing in other attorneys on his own, but if you decide your attorney is a dolt, are you free to give him the boot, or do you have to stick with him (and pay for anything the "retainer" doesn't cover)?

And finally:
What is NOT covered, Any expenses associated with investigators, expert wtnesses, witnesses, or other persons necessary to assist in the defense of the case, bail bonds, or other court fees, in any.

This would not be a trivial cost, and I would think that if your self-defense shooting were "messy enough" that you are facing charges over it, you are going to be needing more than just your attorney's time. The Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network LLC addresses some of this "gap", but doesn't look like to me the cover full freight on it either.
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Re: Texas Law Shield

Postby snorri » Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:17 pm

If it's a retainer, then I would be on the hook for anything more than the $120 annual fee.

If it's not a retainer, and the TLS attorneys keep calling it a retainer, I'm pretty sure I don't want them as my attorneys.
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