[Pre-paid legal service] vs CHL Protection Plan

[RoyGBiv]

Even if you are found to be immune from civil liability, what's it gonna cost you to go through the legal process? Immunity from liability does not mean that you can't be sued.

--- IANAL

[Mr.ViperBoa]

Even if you are found to be immune from civil liability, what's it gonna cost you to go through the legal process? Immunity from liability does not mean that you can't be sued.

--- IANAL

I thought being sued was civil matter.

[rmr1923]

Even if you are found to be immune from civil liability, what's it gonna cost you to go through the legal process? Immunity from liability does not mean that you can't be sued.

--- IANAL

I thought being sued was civil matter.

i think his point is that you'll still incur legal fees, even if you're found not liable

[Libertas]

IMHO, and someone please correct me it I'm wrong, but if you hit an innocent bystander you could be sued by them even if the shoot was no billed. IANAL

[longtooth]

Correct.

[RoyGBiv]

Even if you are found to be immune from civil liability, what's it gonna cost you to go through the legal process? Immunity from liability does not mean that you can't be sued.

--- IANAL

I thought being sued was civil matter.

Yes... being sued is a civil matter.....

My point is that whatever immunity you may have from being made to pay a civil "penalty" (judgment, actually) does not mean that you cannot be sued.... Being sued is a completely separate notion...

The criminal equivalent would be "being charged" vs "being found guilty"....

So.. even though you MAY (law is always gray) have civil immunity at the end of a civil suit, you can still be sued and be put in a position of needing to defend yourself against a civil suit... to prove that the immunity actually applies in your situation....

----IANAL

[b322da]

IMHO, and someone please correct me it I'm wrong, but if you hit an innocent bystander you could be sued by them even if the shoot was no billed. IANAL

In my opinion, at least for planning purposes, a person who carries a handgun and anticipates that circumstances at hand could cause him or her to lawfully fire that weapon, resulting in the death or wounding of your "innocent bystander," should anticipate that he or she not only can be sued, but will be sued. Ultimate liability, if any, is a different question of course, after, naturally, the case wends its way through the courts, possibly for years.

In my words above you will note no distinction whether the shooter be a CHLer, LEO or neither of the above. The shooter's status at the time may be relevant to ultimate liability, but not necessarily as to the likelihood of a civil action following the tragedy.

To further impress our CHL holders with the responsibility they take upon themselves, while your question, Libertas, is related to an "innocent bystander," my answer applies also with respect to killing or wounding "the bad guy," although in most states, and particularly in Texas, different legal principles will be applicable and may alter the likelihood of the civil action.

Many of our members out there probably recall the article published some time ago by an LEO which related that every round he has fired "on the job" has cost him $15,000. If the author wrote that article today I suspect the cost per round would probably have more than doubled.

I am not selling insurance or legal services or anything other than the need for keeping one's eyes and mind open with respect to the responsibilities we have taken upon ourselves by carrying around that little piece of plastic in our wallets or purses. The question of whether or not one needs to purchase insurance includes all the same factors it has always included. Things like, for example, the assets one has at risk, and the nature of his activities which may lay him open to exposure.

Do I have insurance because I carry a concealed weapon? Yes. I have assessed the standard issues one typically assesses before deciding to purchase insurance and decided that it could prove to be money well spent. I will not mention the identity of that insurance since I would not wish to shortcut any person's personal assessment, nor would I wish him or her to make a mistake because of something I said.

As to insurance, I will take this opportunity to say again what I have said before. Above all, do not expect to get meaningful advice about various products offered by chatting on a forum like this, particularly where, to the best of my recollection, I have never seen even a hint that someone actually used the product satisfactorily. One should get such advice from competent insurance advisors, be they insurance brokers or competent lawyers, or some other credible and reliable professional -- someone familiar with the risk we have undertaken. Always get that advice in writing, no matter who the source was. That is why, for example, insurance brokers and lawyers are paid for the services they render. They take on considerable personal risk should they give you the wrong advice.

My advice here of course earns me not a penny, so I leave the question bothering you and others, Libertas, to the professionals who make their livings giving such advice. I will beat the anticipated round of commentators observing that I have admitted that my advice here is worth exactly what you have paid for it. I agree. Take it for what it is worth, and pay to get advice you can count on.

And, in closing, Libertas, you are doing exactly the right thing in thinking about this before the fact. I would submit that one might also take a millisecond thinking about it before touching that trigger. I do not imply that these considerations take precedence over all the other things one thinks about, whether he knows it or not, during that millisecond, but only that all this should be on the list.

Elmo

[Big Tuna]

I've been comparing [pre-paid legal] and CHLPP. It seems that [pre-paid legal] has better coverage as they will represent you in civil trials and criminal trials. CHLPP will only represent you up to the time of indictment. Their rates are similar.

Would [pre-paid legal] cover you for a lawsuit about a stray bullet if you miss the criminal and hit an innocent? What about that guy in Houston who dropped his gun and shot a woman, would he be covered if he had [pre-paid legal] and she sued?

[PhilC50]

How about Concealed Carry Legal Services? Their coverage looks pretty good although I would like to see a full contract before signing up.

http://www.concealedcarrylegal.com/index.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I find this line interesting: "or even when you have been legally challenged while carrying your weapon."

[Cobra Medic]

Many of our members out there probably recall the article published some time ago by an LEO which related that every round he has fired "on the job" has cost him $15,000. If the author wrote that article today I suspect the cost per round would probably have more than doubled.

If someone is worried about money, you can pre-pay your own funeral for a lot less than $15,000.

[Cobra Medic]

Does anyone know how much Joe Horn had to pay after his schooting?

[bowserb]

Hey guys...old thread but this was not resolved, in spite of its importance. Any CHL holder who isn't very worried about liability, just isn't paying attention.

From some stories I've heard, it seems like shooting a BG could turn out only slightly better than being shot by the BG! You win the gun battle, but what do you win? The right to go to jail, to lose your life savings, to be sued by a criminal's family from New Orleans or Monterrey? Try this article written by a former police officer, LE consultant, and CC instructor: http://www.stoppingpower.net/commentary ... ention.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Pre-paid legal service] vs CHL Protection Plan vs Concealed Carry Legal Services vs the NRA's endorsed self defense coverage. There are probably others. The thing I am most concerned about these plans is: Do they really cover you, and will they be able to cover to the extent of their contracted obligations? Of these, I think only the NRA-endorsed plan has insurance rated by A.M. Best.

Other observations:
CHL Protection Plan - Their contact mailing address is a mailbox store. And do you want legal coverage from someone who takes PayPal???
[Pre-paid legal service] - At least their address is an office building, but it looks like it is mostly "executive suites".
Concealed Carry Legal Services - Their contact page has a typo in the name (says "Contract Us" instead of "Contact Us"). Don't lawyers live to proofread?
NRA-endorsed - Claims to be by a large agency, Locton Affinity, but I've never heard of them, and they're not the insurer, they're the insurance agent. They do let you see the insurance certificate in advance, but it is so full of legaleze, I'd need to hire a lawyer to tell me what it says. Lots of exclusions, one of which sounds like the very thing it is supposed to cover is excluded!

Has anyone first hand experience with any service that provides insurance or at least defense in the event you have to protect yourself or your family? Is there some reason we can't buy this kind of liability coverage from State Farm?

[texas-sig]

Hey guys...old thread but this was not resolved, in spite of its importance. Any CHL holder who isn't very worried about liability, just isn't paying attention.

From some stories I've heard, it seems like shooting a BG could turn out only slightly better than being shot by the BG! You win the gun battle, but what do you win? The right to go to jail, to lose your life savings, to be sued by a criminal's family from New Orleans or Monterrey? Try this article written by a former police officer, LE consultant, and CC instructor: http://www.stoppingpower.net/commentary ... ention.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Pre-paid legal service] vs CHL Protection Plan vs Concealed Carry Legal Services vs the NRA's endorsed self defense coverage. There are probably others. The thing I am most concerned about these plans is: Do they really cover you, and will they be able to cover to the extent of their contracted obligations? Of these, I think only the NRA-endorsed plan has insurance rated by A.M. Best.

Other observations:
CHL Protection Plan - Their contact mailing address is a mailbox store. And do you want legal coverage from someone who takes PayPal???
[Pre-paid legal service] - At least their address is an office building, but it looks like it is mostly "executive suites".
Concealed Carry Legal Services - Their contact page has a typo in the name (says "Contract Us" instead of "Contact Us"). Don't lawyers live to proofread?
NRA-endorsed - Claims to be by a large agency, Locton Affinity, but I've never heard of them, and they're not the insurer, they're the insurance agent. They do let you see the insurance certificate in advance, but it is so full of legaleze, I'd need to hire a lawyer to tell me what it says. Lots of exclusions, one of which sounds like the very thing it is supposed to cover is excluded!

Has anyone first hand experience with any service that provides insurance or at least defense in the event you have to protect yourself or your family? Is there some reason we can't buy this kind of liability coverage from State Farm?

Same here, waiting for a personal experience story. But like most insurance they probably all back out right when you need it.

[wgoforth]

US Concealed Carry Asc has an interesting sounding coverage https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/self-d ... pgrade.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[bowserb]

US Concealed Carry Asc has an interesting sounding coverage https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/self-d ... pgrade.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I took a look there. Several years ago I was a member of USCCA. After the management demonstrated questionable judgment in its editorial policy, publishing an article that many, many people considered innapropriate and at the very least in incredibly bad taste--and then issued a non-apology--I let my membership lapse.

My question about this "shield"--and one on which I could find no info, since part of their website is not functioning--is what are the financial resources behind the Foundation? Since their links a broken today, all I can find out is that the Platinum plan which is normally $297, is now on sale for $77. If it were real, that would be a remarkable bargain compared to, say, the NRA plan. The key to any insurance is the financial strength of the company. If USCCA Foundation has $15,000 in cash and CD's, then how much help can it really provide? So, you call for $25,000 in legal assistance, because you just shot a BG, and you've been taken downtown for questioning and the BG's "fiance" has a lawyer ready to file the lawsuit, what does USCCA Foundation do? Write you a check or file Chapter 13?

If the USCCA plan is underwritten by a major insurance company, then that should be prominently advertised in their promotions. Since it is not so advertised, I can only assume that its resources consist of fees paid by members. At least the NRA-endorsed plan has an A.M. Best-rated insurance company on the hook, although they could bail as well.

As much as I have searched, I have not been able to find a story of anyone being assisted by any of the prepaid legal or insurance plans. I'll grant you, the probability of needing one is low, so the chances of finding anyone on any of the forums who has used one is even lower. Still, I'd prefer to not throw away money on a scam if I can avoid it!