lake sommerville

[tboesche]

Going to meet my sister there tomorrow for the weekend. Website says managed by TPWD but their is also a blurb about the COE. Is it ok to carry there?

[RPB]

Nope, off limits, according to the TPWD Lawyers and ACOE Lawyers
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fishboat/fi ... omerville/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Reservoir Controlling Authority
US Army Corps of Engineers
Box 549
Somerville, Texas 77879
(979) 596-1622
(Which sucks since some Trailways are State Park areas, but they are owned by the ACOE .... so off limits)
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/spdest/find ... omerville/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Unless and until Representative Bob Gibbs Resolution passes ... have you called your US Congressman to support it?
ACOE land and federal HR 1865
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=45058&p=553355&hilit=acoe#p553355" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You could call the Commander and ask permission .... good luck with that, it's like getting a College Chancellor to give permission ...

Find your US Representative here http://www.house.gov/zip/ZIP2Rep.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Info about HR 1865 http://gibbs.house.gov/press-release/co ... efense-act" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
at the bottom is a link to a PDF to other Representatives

[johnson0317]

? I know I did not search the entire site, but this is what I found. It does not seem like it applies to a "secured" firearm.

It is unlawful to:
store, transport, or abandon an unsecured loaded firearm in a place where children can obtain unsupervised access to the firearm. A person under age 17 who has lawful access to a firearm may hunt with the firearm if the youth has successfully completed the hunter education course, or is accompanied by a licensed hunter age 17 or older who has complied with the hunter education requirement, if applicable.

[RPB]

The US Army Corps of Engineers has Hunting areas, if you have the proper hunting license, and they have Shooting ranges in some areas. They have regulations on how your gun must be unloaded and stored on the way to the ranges.
That does not mean a CHL can carry a concealed weapon.
The Federal Gov't does not care what State license you have
Concerning hunting, on most USACE property, it's illegal to possess a shotgun if it's assembled IIRC. Shotguns on some of their properties "presume" you are hunting illegally.

CHAPTER III--U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16134&p=183512&hili ... er#p183512" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
PART 327--RULES AND REGULATIONS GOVERNING PUBLIC USE OF WATER RESOURCES
DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS ADMINISTERED BY THE CHIEF OF ENGINEERS

327.13 Explosives, firearms, other weapons and fireworks.
(a) The possession of loaded firearms, ammunition, loaded projectile firing devices, bows and arrows, crossbows, or other weapons is prohibited unless:
(1) In the possession of a Federal, state or local law enforcement officer;
(2) Being used for hunting or fishing as permitted under 327.8, with devices being unloaded when transported to, from or between hunting and fishing sites;
(3) Being used at authorized shooting ranges; or
(4) Written permission has been received from the District Commander.
(b) Possession of explosives or explosive devices of any kind, including fireworks or other pyrotechnics, is prohibited unless written permission has been received from the District Commander.

Nowhere does it state a CHL is valid, or that state guidelines overrule the federal.

In fact, There was a memo when Texas State Parks/National Parks became legal, that State Parks on USACE land were in fact NOT legal.

The memo link is here viewtopic.php?f=7&t=34417&p=405278&hili ... ch#p405278" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Asked for an exception for ACOE property..DENIED
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=36766&p=435790&hili ... my#p435790" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Have you called your U.S Representative to change this and support the House Resolution HR 1865 by Representative Bob Gibbs mentioned above?

3. 36 C.F.R. § 327.13 remains in full force and effect. It will continue to prohibit loaded concealed weapons on Corps properties regardless of the new law and notwithstanding any contrary provisions of State law. It remains Corps policy that we will not honor State-issued concealed weapon permits on our facilities and that District Commanders do not have discretion under 36 C.F.R. § 327.13(a)(4) to create blanket exceptions to this policy. A change of this nature to Corps regulations in 36 C.F.R. Part 327 would require formal rulemaking procedures under the Administrative Procedures Act (5 U.S.C. §§ 551-706).

The above applies not only to prohibit CHLs, but any guns in cars of unlicensed MPA/Motorist Protection Act carriers in their parking areas ... as well as guns in boats under the newly passed HB 25 in "their" waters .... even if it's a State Park on land leased from the USACE.

So, some people thinking they are legal under Texas law... are in fact becoming criminals under Federal Regulation, whether licensed or not.

E-mail/call/FAX your U.S Representative to change this and support the House Resolution HR 1865 by Representative Bob Gibbs. (Before someone "accidentally" becomes a "test case" and not having money to fight the Feds, loses.)

[nyj]

Enjoy the lake. It is one of the prettiest places in TX, IMO. The fishing is fantastic, too.

[CC Italian]

I researched this a year or so back when I was park hopping and doing a lot of back packing and camping in the country. From what I found I agree with RPB. CHL carry in Sommerville is a no go. Army corps of Eng. controls it and thats all she wrote.

[bkj]

I had a student ask about Lake Summerville, so I called Crag Erikson at TPWL (512)389-8022. He is the CLEO foe TPWL. All areas under TPWC authority are OK for CHL that includes land owned by ACOE. So everything except the dam and the water is OK for CHL. On the water if TPWL stops you no problem if ACOE stops you big trouble.

[RPB]

I had a student ask about Lake Summerville, so I called Crag Erikson at TPWL (512)389-8022. He is the CLEO foe TPWL. All areas under TPWC authority are OK for CHL that includes land owned by ACOE. So everything except the dam and the water is OK for CHL. On the water if TPWL stops you no problem if ACOE stops you big trouble.

I got a letter from Carter Smith, saying it was ok on TPWD State Parks etc ... but then ....
See viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33215&hilit=usacoe" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I had written to Gv. Perry. who referred it to Carter Smith, who gave an answer, but then ...
Actually it is illegal on any land owned by US Army Corps of Engineers under the Federal Regs, but TPWD may not enforce that .... or maybe they will.

Understand, a federal law would have to be enforced by federal law enforcement officers. So, it is not likely that you would get a ticket for carrying on COE lands.

The TPWD legal division has been in contact with the COE and researched the issue of carrying concealed on a state park leased from the COE.
...the legal division at TPWD that the letter by Mr. Carter Smith was in error and that it is indeed illegal to carry a firearm in a state park leased by TPWD from the COE, as per federal laws. State parks NOT on COE properties are legal for concealed carry. So, if you visit a park, you should verify first if it is COE lands and if it is, carrying on the park will be illegal. This also apparently goes for keeping a firearm in your vehicle. Although keeping a firearm in your vehicle is legal under state laws, the Federal law prevails.

[RPB]

The "trap" is ... if you carry legally under State law in an area it's illegal under Federal law, and a LEO asks for your ID ...if it's a Texas Game Warden you "may" be ok... maybe not ... if it's a Park Ranger/Fed LEO ... you're gonna have problems.


Interestingly, a person after Sept 1 (If HB 25 is/was signed) .... carrying in a boat, say at Lake Waco/Whitney/Stillhouse/Granger/Georgetown/... or any of the many ACOE lakes, won't need a CHL .... and he'll obviously see the imaginary boundary line Painted in the water where STATE River Authority and ACOE water is separated by that boundary, but won't have to show any CHL .... but if a Fed stops him say when they are enforcing drinking while boating or checking for required equipment on holiday weekends ....

[bkj]

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Feder ... px?id=6787

Friday, May 13, 2011

Urge your Member of Congress to Cosponsor this Important Legislation--On May 12, Rep. Bob Gibbs (R-Ohio) and Rep. Jason Altmire (D-Pa.) introduced H.R. 1865, the Recreational Lands Self-Defense Act, which is designed to protect the rights of gun owners on lands owned or managed by the Army Corps of Engineers.

Legislation that made it legal to possess firearms for self-defense on National Park Service and National Wildlife Refuge System lands greatly expanded the places where law-abiding Americans can legally carry firearms for self-defense. However, that change in the law did not include millions of acres of recreational land managed by the Army Corps of Engineers. The Corps owns or manages over 11.7 million acres, including 400 lakes and river projects, 90,000 campsites and 4,000 miles of trails.

After passage of the change in carry regulations for National Parks, the Army Corps released a statement that read: "Public Law 111-024 does not apply to Corps projects of facilities . . . It [the Army Corps] will continue to prohibit loaded concealed weapons on Corps properties regardless of the new law and notwithstanding any contrary provisions of state law."

H.R. 1865 will reverse this Army Corps policy and prohibit the Secretary of the Army from enforcing any regulation that prohibits gun possession in compliance with state law on Corps projects and lands. The legislation would not, however, allow firearms in federal facilities such as Army Corps headquarters, Corps research facilities or lock and dam buildings.

This important legislation is another step in the removal of a patchwork of laws that prohibit or restrict where law-abiding people may legally carry a firearm for self-defense.

"According to some estimates, the federal government owns 30 percent of all land across this country," said NRA-ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox. "This bill will take us one step closer toward having a consistent firearms policy across all federal lands. The members of the NRA along with tens of millions of other gun owners would like to thank Congressmen Gibbs and Altmire for their leadership in seeking a common-sense bipartisan remedy to this problem."

Pease click here to see a list of cosponsors. Please click here to contact your Member of congress and

[ScottDLS]

The "trap" is ... if you carry legally under State law in an area it's illegal under Federal law, and a LEO asks for your ID ...if it's a Texas Game Warden you "may" be ok... maybe not ... if it's a Park Ranger/Fed LEO ... you're gonna have problems.


Interestingly, a person after Sept 1 (If HB 25 is/was signed) .... carrying in a boat, say at Lake Waco/Whitney/Stillhouse/Granger/Georgetown/... or any of the many ACOE lakes, won't need a CHL .... and he'll obviously see the imaginary boundary line Painted in the water where STATE River Authority and ACOE water is separated by that boundary, but won't have to show any CHL .... but if a Fed stops him say when they are enforcing drinking while boating or checking for required equipment on holiday weekends ....

Fed LEO's are not Texas Peace Officers or Magistrates, therefore you are not required to show them your CHL.

[RPB]

The "trap" is ... if you carry legally under State law in an area it's illegal under Federal law, and a LEO asks for your ID ...if it's a Texas Game Warden you "may" be ok... maybe not ... if it's a Park Ranger/Fed LEO ... you're gonna have problems.


Interestingly, a person after Sept 1 (If HB 25 is/was signed) .... carrying in a boat, say at Lake Waco/Whitney/Stillhouse/Granger/Georgetown/... or any of the many ACOE lakes, won't need a CHL .... and he'll obviously see the imaginary boundary line Painted in the water where STATE River Authority and ACOE water is separated by that boundary, but won't have to show any CHL .... but if a Fed stops him say when they are enforcing drinking while boating or checking for required equipment on holiday weekends ....

Fed LEO's are not Texas Peace Officers or Magistrates, therefore you are not required to show them your CHL.

Good to know, I hadn't looked at who is a Peace officer in a long time; ...
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/S ... m/CR.2.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Art. 2.12. WHO ARE PEACE OFFICERS.

I found NPS National Park Service and Forest System .... didn't see ARMY property-LEOs
Art. 2.122. SPECIAL INVESTIGATORS. (a) The following named criminal investigators of the United States shall not be deemed peace officers, but shall have the powers of arrest, search and seizure as to felony offenses only under the laws of the State of Texas:

d) A commissioned law enforcement officer of the National Park Service is not a peace officer under the laws of this state, except that the officer has the powers of arrest, search, and seizure as to any offense under the laws of this state committed within the boundaries of a national park or national recreation area. In this subsection, "national park or national recreation area" means a national park or national recreation area included in the National Park System as defined by 16 U.S.C. Section 1c(a).
---
(e) A Special Agent or Law Enforcement Officer of the United States Forest Service is not a peace officer under the laws of this state, except that the agent or officer has the powers of arrest, search, and seizure as to any offense under the laws of this state committed within the National Forest System. In this subsection, "National Forest System" has the meaning assigned by 16 U.S.C. Section 1609.

[RPB]

Find Your Representative
Enter your zip code

on http://www.house.gov/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Support. co-sponsor House Resolution HR 1865 by Representative Bob Gibbs

[KC5AV]

I started checking out this legislation the other day, and found out that my Rep. (Louie Gohmert TX-01) is a co-sponsor.

[Bullitt]

Any updates on this? Still illegal on Lake Sommerville?