Is "Open Carry" allow on your premises / property?

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Is "Open Carry" allow on your premises / property?

Postby Pep » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:00 am

I suspect that this topic has been discussed many times on this forum, however; I couldn't find the topic or the answer to my question.

Here's my question;

I was having a conversation with another CHL holder about "open carry" in Texas and it's his interpretation of the law that you can open carry "outside" of your house provided you are on your own property (i.e. mowing the lawn, washing the car, piddling in the garage, etc, etc,) and at your job if the employer requires it even though you are not a LEO or certified security guard.

It is my interpretation of the law that as a CHL holder, regardless if you are on your own property and outside of the house, open carry is prohibited. I base that interpretation on a discussion I had with a Houston LEO and he responded by saying a Concealed Handgun License is just that, "Concealed ... and "Concealed means Concealed". In other words, no you cannot open carry while outside your house using the examples I gave above.

Of course if you're out hunting with a shotgun, rifle or bow, that's different ... but even then it is my interpretation that concealed and open carry of a pistol is illegal when hunting.

Concerning the issue of an employer requiring an employee to "open carry" without the proper credentials (i.e. LEO, or properly trained and certified Security Officer) it is my understanding that that, too, is prohibited.

The person I was having this discussion with said that he recently applied for a part time position at a local gun shop and they required that he open carry. I've never heard of this and I've never noticed any employees at the gun stores I've been too openly carrying a pistol.

Having just received my CHL, I'm relatively new to this, so any input would be appreciated.

Thanks,

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Re: Is "Open Carry" allow on your premises / property?

Postby Teamless » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:14 am

Your employer can require you open carry, just look at most gun shops in Texas and I would guess that many of those who work there, are also CHLs.

Open carry on your property is LEGAL.
in your house, in your front yard, back yard, farm property, etc etc etc.
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Re: Is "Open Carry" allow on your premises / property?

Postby Vol Texan » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:18 am

Already covered in an existing thread. From what I read there, it is legal, but you should consider whether it is prudent to advertise your gun ownership, given your neighborhood situation:

http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=57760&hilit=open+carry+at+home&start=30
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Re: Is "Open Carry" allow on your premises / property?

Postby Heartland Patriot » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:21 am

Local law enforcement, based on several folks' postings I've read on here, doesn't seem to be the best source for accurate information regarding CHL or other handgun law in the State of Texas. You are better off looking up things in the Penal Code, or as you just did, asking the question on here (because someone will probably look it up in the Penal Code).
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Re: Is "Open Carry" allow on your premises / property?

Postby Ericstac » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:53 am

What I don't understand is the ..or property under your control..

I don't know about everyone else but I have a 3ft radius around me wherever I go that I am in full control of ;-) so by law I can open carry everywhere :patriot:
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Re: Is "Open Carry" allow on your premises / property?

Postby Teamless » Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:11 am

Ericstac wrote:What I don't understand is the ..or property under your control..

I interpret that, rightly or wrongly, as perhaps I am house sitting at my sisters house for a week, during that time, the property is "under my control"
However, that also means, that once they return, I am no longer allowed to OC on their property (but maybe they could give me permission?)
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Re: Is "Open Carry" allow on your premises / property?

Postby Ericstac » Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:16 am

Teamless wrote:
Ericstac wrote:What I don't understand is the ..or property under your control..

I interpret that, rightly or wrongly, as perhaps I am house sitting at my sisters house for a week, during that time, the property is "under my control"
However, that also means, that once they return, I am no longer allowed to OC on their property (but maybe they could give me permission?)



Yeah you are correct. I was just twisting the law a little :)

That part of the law is what allows business owners and emps to OC even though they don't actually own the property..
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Re: Is "Open Carry" allow on your premises / property?

Postby Pep » Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:40 pm

Thanks for all of the feedback ... very informative.

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Re: Is "Open Carry" allow on your premises / property?

Postby SewTexas » Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:59 pm

always keep in the back of your mind "just because I can, doesn't always mean I should" ie. if you live in a crowded subdivision, should you OC while you mow your front yard? or am I (the HOA) or the cops going to get a phone call? ;-)
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Re: Is "Open Carry" allow on your premises / property?

Postby Pep » Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:07 pm

SewTexas wrote:always keep in the back of your mind "just because I can, doesn't always mean I should" ie. if you live in a crowded subdivision, should you OC while you mow your front yard? or am I (the HOA) or the cops going to get a phone call? ;-)


Not that I'm against open carry, but if it was legal I'd still carry concealed. I prefer the element of surprise.

I live in a HOA and I'm certain that if I was open carrying while mowing the lawn or washing the car at least one of my neighbors would raise the flag and I'd get a visit from the Houston HPD.

I don't care to go there.

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Re: Is "Open Carry" allow on your premises / property?

Postby recaffeination » Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:11 pm

Teamless wrote:
Ericstac wrote:What I don't understand is the ..or property under your control..

I interpret that, rightly or wrongly, as perhaps I am house sitting at my sisters house for a week, during that time, the property is "under my control"

Renters are a very common example. If I rent a house, it's under my control, and can have a handgun in the house (and in the yard) even if I don't have a CHL. The same applies to a business owner who rents an office, storefront, warehouse, etc. He doesn't own the property but can carry without a license, openly or concealed, because he is in control of the property as the lessee.
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Re: Is "Open Carry" allow on your premises / property?

Postby SewTexas » Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:11 pm

hey, long as they call me, I'll tell them to go away, but if they call the cops, well, around here, the cops will come by, and say something along the lines of "please don't scare the moms and the grandmoms" ;-)
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Re: Is "Open Carry" allow on your premises / property?

Postby packa45 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:17 pm

:iagree:

Depending on where you live... If I had a house with my nearest neighbor 100-200 yards away yeah open carry if you want... But in a crowded subdivision or other area where you can spit and hit 4 houses or cars that don't belong to you I would consider keeping it concealed... Because in some situations a loaded gun on your hip may be reported to a LEO as a brandishing by those that have no idea of the meaning.

Carry of a concealed weapon on your own property is not a crime.
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Re: Is "Open Carry" allow on your premises / property?

Postby tacticool » Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:55 pm

Pep wrote:Concerning the issue of an employer requiring an employee to "open carry" without the proper credentials (i.e. LEO, or properly trained and certified Security Officer) it is my understanding that that, too, is prohibited.

The person I was having this discussion with said that he recently applied for a part time position at a local gun shop and they required that he open carry.

If they want him to open carry to display the merchandise for sale, that may be legal at a gun shop. However, if the business expects him to act as armed security, and he's not a commissioned security guard, the business and he could get in hot water legally.
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Re: Is "Open Carry" allow on your premises / property?

Postby RPB » Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:15 pm

I was having a conversation with another CHL holder about "open carry" in Texas and it's his interpretation of the law that you can open carry "outside" of your house provided you are on your own property (i.e. mowing the lawn, washing the car, piddling in the garage, etc, etc,) and at your job if the employer requires it even though you are not a LEO or certified security guard.

It is my interpretation of the law that as a CHL holder, regardless if you are on your own property and outside of the house, open carry is prohibited. I base that interpretation on a discussion I had with a Houston LEO and he responded by saying a Concealed Handgun License is just that, "Concealed ... and "Concealed means Concealed". In other words, no you cannot open carry while outside your house using the examples I gave above.


But ...
the error there is that to open carry while mowing your lawn, no concealed carry license is needed and you are not carrying under the authority of your Chapter 411 Government Code concealed carry license while mowing your own lawn.

While mowing your lawn on property you own, you are carrying under the authority of Penal Code Chapter 46 -

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /PE.46.htm

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:

(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control;
or


If the person is NOT on their own property, but mowing someone else's yard which is not under their control, they can't open carry ... but on your own property you can, but do not waive it around and commit CHAPTER 42. DISORDERLY CONDUCThttp://www.statutes.legis.state. ... /PE.42.htm

The wisdom of open carrying on your own property is debatable and dependent upon neighborhood/neighbors etc.

I live in a small city which does not even have a gun store, though we have several gunsmiths, and CHL instructors and ammo for sale at the hardware store ... I surmise the reason is is that everyone here either has enough guns and probably are already wearing and/or or carrying them (most do :mrgreen: ) I do carry here doing yard work, getting the mail etc, it's IWB, but with no shirt on so the grip sticks out and everyone driving by or sitting outside knows I'm armed anyway ... but if I still lived in parts of Houston it would probably be concealed. In this city, lots of people sleep with doors and windows open, this isn't Houston ;-)
I'm no lawyer

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