Response From DPS Regarding Policies When Encountering CHLer

CHL discussions that do not fit into more specific topics

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Re: Response From DPS Regarding Policies When Encountering C

Postby sjfcontrol » Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:17 pm

longtooth wrote:
anygunanywhere wrote:
longtooth wrote:
He probably just missed it for a week. He has answered far more important posts yesterday.


Still no response LT??

Anygunanywhere


Nope & my comment about more important posts was sarcasim. That is about as close to a joke as I ever tell on acount I kant tellem.


Apparently! ;-)
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Re: Response From DPS Regarding Policies When Encountering C

Postby Moby » Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:06 pm

Does anyone know ehre numbers can be found of CHL holders having stolen guns?
I mean why else would they bother to check? It seems to me the last fuy to have a stolen gun would be a CHL holder.
The license is worth far more to me than the cost of any firearm.
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Re: Response From DPS Regarding Policies When Encountering C

Postby handog » Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:35 pm

Texas Sheepdog wrote:
Our policy says to disarm everyone. If the gun comes back clean and we can verify their credentials, they get the gun back unloaded, and they can reload after they leave the scene. If there's any questions, we can hold onto the gun until we sort things out. Sometimes we hold onto the suspect too, depending on the contact. LOL


Abraham wrote:I'm thinking the word "imposter"...



Round Rock PD. My guess. LOL
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Re: Response From DPS Regarding Policies When Encountering C

Postby Andrew » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:06 pm

After reviewing all the posts in this thread I have come to the conclusion that I will be changing my every day carry. I do not want to be anywhere around when a new/inexperienced L.E.O. disarms a CHL holder carrying a cocked and locked 1911.
Just sayin'
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Re: Response From DPS Regarding Policies When Encountering C

Postby texanjoker » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:26 pm

handog wrote:Texas Sheepdog wrote:
Our policy says to disarm everyone. If the gun comes back clean and we can verify their credentials, they get the gun back unloaded, and they can reload after they leave the scene. If there's any questions, we can hold onto the gun until we sort things out. Sometimes we hold onto the suspect too, depending on the contact. LOL


Abraham wrote:I'm thinking the word "imposter"...



Round Rock PD. My guess. LOL


If that person was a real LEO, their photo showed a black suv with some weird marking and a tan/green uniform. I cannot see any LE agency having a mandatory disarm all CHL holders policy, but then again this is Texas and it might be a 1 man department.
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Re: Response From DPS Regarding Policies When Encountering C

Postby AEA » Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:07 am

Andrew wrote:After reviewing all the posts in this thread I have come to the conclusion that I will be changing my every day carry. I do not want to be anywhere around when a new/inexperienced L.E.O. disarms a CHL holder carrying a cocked and locked 1911.
Just sayin'

:iagree: My feeling EXACTLY. :thumbs2:
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Re: Response From DPS Regarding Policies When Encountering C

Postby jimlongley » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:35 am

handog wrote:Texas Sheepdog wrote:
Our policy says to disarm everyone. If the gun comes back clean and we can verify their credentials, they get the gun back unloaded, and they can reload after they leave the scene. If there's any questions, we can hold onto the gun until we sort things out. Sometimes we hold onto the suspect too, depending on the contact. LOL


Abraham wrote:I'm thinking the word "imposter"...



Round Rock PD. My guess. LOL


Anyone know how many police agencies there are in TX? I was starting to think of a FOIA request to every one concerning their "policy" of disarming ALL CHLs on contact. A logistical nightmare to be sure, but maybe our membership could accomplish it by distributing the labor. Or we could get someone with enough standing to ask the Attorney General for an opinion and hope it comes out right.
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Re: Response From DPS Regarding Policies When Encountering C

Postby AEA » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:17 am

jimlongley wrote:Or we could get someone with enough standing to ask the Attorney General for an opinion and hope it comes out right.

I wonder who that "someone with enough standing" might be? .......um......thinking.....................................................
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Re: Response From DPS Regarding Policies When Encountering C

Postby E.Marquez » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:05 am

AEA wrote:
jimlongley wrote:Or we could get someone with enough standing to ask the Attorney General for an opinion and hope it comes out right.

I wonder who that "someone with enough standing" might be? .......um......thinking.....................................................


I wish it was JUST someone with "standing"
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Section 402.042 of the Government Code lists the officials who are authorized to request formal attorney general opinions on questions of law. The attorney general is prohibited by statute from giving a written opinion to anyone other than an authorized requestor. Authorized requestors are:

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Re: Response From DPS Regarding Policies When Encountering C

Postby mojo84 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:12 am

Just need to put pressure on the governor to do it. Maybe contracting him would prompt him to do it.
"The laws which forbid men to bear arms … only disarm those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes,” Cesare Beccaria, an Italian scholar, wrote in his 1764 treatise on the subject. “These laws make the victims of attack worse off and improve the position of the assailant.”
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Re: Response From DPS Regarding Policies When Encountering C

Postby texanjoker » Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:00 pm

AEA wrote:
Andrew wrote:After reviewing all the posts in this thread I have come to the conclusion that I will be changing my every day carry. I do not want to be anywhere around when a new/inexperienced L.E.O. disarms a CHL holder carrying a cocked and locked 1911.
Just sayin'

:iagree: My feeling EXACTLY. :thumbs2:


First to avoid risking this at all, don't violate any traffic or other laws. In TX that is hard due to the revenue factor for citations :shock: Then to be prepared for any vehicle stops, carry a power point slide show on your phone and an additional print out of the slide show to teach the person how to safely unload the weapon with big photographs :thumbs2: . ( joke intended)

I can honestly say I have worked with and still do, some that could not safely clear any weapon but their duty weapon at best. (I also saw the same thing during the CHL course qual in 07 upon moving to TX.) Not everybody is familiar with firearms. Smart ones know to ask for help.

The AG suggestion is a good one. :thumbs2:
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Re: Response From DPS Regarding Policies When Encountering C

Postby srothstein » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:45 am

jimlongley wrote:Anyone know how many police agencies there are in TX? I was starting to think of a FOIA request to every one concerning their "policy" of disarming ALL CHLs on contact. A logistical nightmare to be sure, but maybe our membership could accomplish it by distributing the labor.


According to TCLEOSE, as of Jan 7, there were 2649 police agencies in Texas. As you say, it would be a logistical nightmare.
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Re: Response From DPS Regarding Policies When Encountering C

Postby gigag04 » Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:29 am

I bet few of any formal policy of doing such. Mine has literally nothing on paper about it.
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Re: Response From DPS Regarding Policies When Encountering C

Postby E.Marquez » Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:40 pm

Texas Sheepdog wrote: Our policy says to disarm everyone. If the gun comes back clean and we can verify their credentials, they get the gun back unloaded, and they can reload after they leave the scene. If there's any questions, we can hold onto the gun until we sort things out. Sometimes we hold onto the suspect too, depending on the contact. LOL

Texas Sheepdog
Afternoon. I see your back posting :thumbs2:

You may have missed the request in this thread.. But I noticed you did not respond,here or any other thread you posted to.

Might you tell us here or in a PM if you prefer, what Texas Law enforcement depart you work for that has a disarm all CHL's on contact policy as you stated?
This is still a very interesting subject to me..
I'll send you a PM as well encase you miss this thread.
I though you had left the forum, then noticed your still posting.. Thanks. :patriot:

PS if your personal choice or department policy forbids you from telling us where you work, and what department has this disarm all CHL's, would you be so kind as to just state that .. so we know it's a dead issue?

Thanks again.
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Re: Response From DPS Regarding Policies When Encountering C

Postby baldeagle » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:30 pm

I didn't read all eleven pages, so this may have already been covered. But it seems to me that "comes into possession" refers to an officer seizing a weapon. The act of disarming a CHL for their and the officer's safety is not a legal seizure. A legal seizure would require probable cause of a crime having been committed.

I would think, then, that running a NCICS check on that weapon would be an illegal search since the weapon was not lawfully seized. Some officers may be interpreting the policy in a way that doesn't comport with my understanding, but I believe, for them to run a NCICS check, they would need to legally seize the weapon and fill out the appropriate paperwork as required by the policy.

Therefore, my approach would be, if encountering this situation, to tell the officer, "Sir, you do not have my permission to perform any action related to a lawful seizure of my weapon unless you can show probable cause for its seizure. If you are disarming me for our safety only, that does not constitute a legal seizure, and I would hold the department responsible for any actions taken subsequent to my disarming that constitute an illegal search or seizure, to include any NCICS checks on my weapon. For your safety and mine, you need to know that my weapon has a live round in the chamber and no manual safety."

What the officer does after that is entirely up to them, but I would have at least established grounds for a lawsuit by claiming my 4th Amendment right.
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