What is the Legal Process for School Carry

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What is the Legal Process for School Carry

Postby 41Garand » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:16 pm

Texas has a legal process for this approval.
How does it work?
Harrold isd did it back in 2008.
How do we get this done in more isd's?
Can a principal approve an individual at a particular school, or does it have to be isd wide?
Anyone attempted to this? Please let me know how you approached the issue, who you talked to and outcome.
Anyone here from Harrold? I would like to hear from you.
Sorry for all of the questions.
I am just looking for clarification and solutions.
Thanks to all.
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Re: What is the Legal Process for School Carry

Postby Keith B » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:19 pm

41Garand wrote:Texas has a legal process for this approval.
How does it work?
Harrold isd did it back in 2008.
How do we get this done in more isd's?
Can a principal approve an individual at a particular school, or does it have to be isd wide?
Anyone attempted to this? Please let me know how you approached the issue, who you talked to and outcome.
Anyone here from Harrold? I would like to hear from you.
Sorry for all of the questions.
I am just looking for clarification and solutions.
Thanks to all.


Requires approval from school officials. This would mean the school board or principal, whichever had the official capacity to approve it.
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Re: What is the Legal Process for School Carry

Postby gdanaher » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:39 pm

Approval to carry concealed on a school campus is a matter that would be voted on by the board of education itself. Nobody including the superintendent would have the authority to authorize this unless the board has already given such authority to do so to the superintendent. A principal would not have the authority to approve this unless so authorized by the sup. and he in turn would need authority of the board.

Edit--In Texas districts, the procedure dictates that the board select a superintendent and that person in turn brings matters to the board for consideration. You could speak to the sup. about this but if the board is well trained in the TASB model, speaking to the board members will bring a response that you need to direct your issue to the superintendent's office.
Last edited by gdanaher on Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is the Legal Process for School Carry

Postby n5wd » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:44 pm

PC 46.03 says:
"PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED.
(a) A person commits anoffense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or
goes with a f irearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in
Section 46.05(a):(1)on the physical premises of a school or educational institution,
any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a s chool or
educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation
vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or
educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written
regulations or written authorization of the institution
;

For an independent school district, I'd assume that the authority to grant someone the permissions "pursuant to written regulations or written authorization" would come from the superintendent's office, at the direction of the school board. They are, for all practical purposes in the State of Texas, the only body that can issue regulations for a school district - every school's just following the district's instructions (required by the law that sets up public school districts in the state).
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Re: What is the Legal Process for School Carry

Postby Cjwglock19 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:51 pm

I have wonderd this often, but very recently. A recent string of events in my district shows just how vulnerable we are. If a campus has teachers who have chl, and they are willing, get them into training to support your campus police in events like what happened in Connecticut today. I'd sign up immediately!!
"You can say 'stop' or 'alto' or use any other word you think will work but I've found that a large bore muzzle pointed at someone's head is pretty much the universal language."

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Re: What is the Legal Process for School Carry

Postby gdanaher » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:21 pm

This is very much a top down issue. Harrold ISD is sort of a unique situation in that they are rural, have more than their share of rattle snakes, an active FFA program, and obviously a board that is very supportive of chl. I don't think the nexus of their decision was so much fear of an armed person assaulting the school so much as being able to dispatch those rattlers. If the district in which you reside is similar to the Harrold demographic, you might be able to convince the authorities so authorize concealed carry by the staff.
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Re: What is the Legal Process for School Carry

Postby Cjwglock19 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:49 pm

Mine is not. However recent events have made school safety a major issue.
"You can say 'stop' or 'alto' or use any other word you think will work but I've found that a large bore muzzle pointed at someone's head is pretty much the universal language."

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Re: What is the Legal Process for School Carry

Postby Sidro » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:08 pm

I graduated from Harrold and still live near by. The decision to allow teachers and staff was decided on by the school board and the superintendant. Those allowed to carry are required to have a a certain amount of training and carry ammunition is restricted to certain types. It is a rural school and does not have very many students enrolled(in 1970 grades 1 thru 12 there was 86 students total).

gdanaher wrote:This is very much a top down issue. Harrold ISD is sort of a unique situation in that they are rural, have more than their share of rattle snakes, an active FFA program, and obviously a board that is very supportive of chl. I don't think the nexus of their decision was so much fear of an armed person assaulting the school so much as being able to dispatch those rattlers. If the district in which you reside is similar to the Harrold demographic, you might be able to convince the authorities so authorize concealed carry by the staff.


In 12 years of school there I can remember only seeing maybe half a dozen rattle snakes on school grounds. However I did see one handgun brought to school and fired twice into study hall walls long before school hours started, by the son of the superintendant at that time. Discipline was meted out though not by school authorities and this never happened again. The superintendant or any other staff as far as I know never knew of the incident per se.
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Re: What is the Legal Process for School Carry

Postby Dragonfighter » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:26 pm

Sidro wrote:I graduated from Harrold and still live near by. The decision to allow teachers and staff was decided on by the school board and the superintendant. Those allowed to carry are required to have a a certain amount of training and carry ammunition is restricted to certain types. <SNIP>


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Re: What is the Legal Process for School Carry

Postby CC Italian » Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:42 pm

I wouldn't hold my breath for this. College carry might happen but grade school. The antis would fight this like crazy! I am also in education and this gets talked about all the time. Many teachers would do this
If a campus has teachers who have chl, and they are willing, get them into training to support your campus police in events like what happened in Connecticut today. I'd sign up immediately!!
My self included.

Contrary to belief (we are not all liberals) most teachers I know are firearms owners and I know several at my school who have a chl. In my district we are banned from having a firearm on the property of the district. So I can't even leave it in my car. It is worthless in the car anyways. The parking lot law does not help ISD employees if your ISD has restrictions in your contract. Many school districts are adopting this policy.

The districts are to worried about a negligent discharge or a student getting control of a firearm to adopt this policy. Of course the number one reason is they are afraid of getting sued.
If anything they will hire more police which has been the trend the last few years. Less teachers more officers. Go figure.
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Re: What is the Legal Process for School Carry

Postby 41Garand » Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:46 pm

I am going before the school board this evening. I have a private meeting with the President and the Superintendent to discuss "no cost security measures" that they can take advantage of.

Say a pray for me.

Over
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Re: What is the Legal Process for School Carry

Postby SherwoodForest » Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:49 pm

I contacted the Governor's office this morning regarding the possibility of Governor Perry taking emergency executive action in order to provide immediate armed protection for children in Texas schools.

The proposed emergency executive action I recommended is based upon historical legal precedent dating from late 1800's whereby the Governor was empowered to issue "frontier proclamations " waiving statutory handgun carry restrictions in designated "frontier" zones.

The immediate result of such emergency executive action would be to preempt the statutory need for school administration authority in allowing classroom teachers an exception from 46.03 since they are the last line of defense between our children, and marauding depredations such as happened in Newton, CT.

Sometimes the intermediate solution to a problem already exists. Then we can work on educating the educators into going along with statutory exceptions for teachers, and administrators similar to LEO's. The important thing is to protect our school children NOW. We can hash out comprehensive approaches later.
Last edited by SherwoodForest on Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is the Legal Process for School Carry

Postby JALLEN » Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:54 pm

As I understand it, that is for each school board to decide. The district that has done so did it for good and sufficient reasons peculiar to that district and that school.

School boards need to run their districts. So much of the authority to do so has been drained away with Federal money and the strings that came with it. School boards are at the bottom of the democracy, one of the smallest local electoral units. They have to pay the bills, defend the lawsuits, endure irate parents at meetings etc.
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Re: What is the Legal Process for School Carry

Postby SherwoodForest » Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:01 pm

Yes, pursuant to statute that is the procedure. While discussions, and meetings proceed - precisely WHAT , WHO is protecting our school children TODAY as we speak ?

In the thousands of schools in Texas - what protection stands between the lives of our children and another marauding murderer ? That is THE QUESTION BEGGING A RESPONSE.
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Re: What is the Legal Process for School Carry

Postby JALLEN » Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:39 pm

SherwoodForest wrote:Yes, pursuant to statute that is the procedure. While discussions, and meetings proceed - precisely WHAT , WHO is protecting our school children TODAY as we speak ?

In the thousands of schools in Texas - what protection stands between the lives of our children and another marauding murderer ? That is THE QUESTION BEGGING A RESPONSE.


The Federal Gun-Free Zone Act of 1990, as amended.

Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(25) the term "school zone" means—

(A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or

(B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school.

Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(26) the term "school" means a school which provides elementary or secondary education, as determined under State law.
Penalty

18 U.S.C. § 924(a)(4) establishes the penalty for violating GFSZA:

Whoever violates the Act shall be fined not more than $5,000, imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or both. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the term of imprisonment imposed under this paragraph shall not run concurrently with any other term of imprisonment imposed under any other provision of law.

Note: A conviction under the GFSZA will cause an individual to become a "prohibited person" under the Gun Control Act of 1968. This will bar them from legally owning firearms for the rest of their life.


You can read the Wikipedia article about it, and feel safer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990
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