true story of a close call

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true story of a close call

Postby jemail » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:08 pm

I've been reading this forum for a few months and want to thank everybody for all the good info. I've never really had anything to contribute until something reminded me of a true story about an armed CHL holder that a local CHL instructor tells frequently. The instructor is fairly anti-computer so, I'll share the story....

A man (who we'll call John so I don't confuse myself with pronouns) was driving home in the middle of the night after working in another state all week. He pulled into a small town gas station in the middle of nowhere. It was empty except for the clerk inside and a car beside the store across the parking lot. John gets out and starts pumping gas. A man gets out of the only other car around and starts walking toward John. The guy says "Hey man!" John ignores him thinking he'll go away. He says "Hey man!" again and adds "Can you help me? I need some money." John still ignores him and continues with his gas. All of the sudden the man walks around John's car and they're standing face to face and the man has a knife poking John in the side and he says "Give me some money or I'll kill you." John stands there in shock for a second until the guy wiggles the knife and says again "Give me some money or I'll kill you."

What should you do in that situation? Do you give the guy a few bucks knowing it'll buy drugs or booze but probably make him go away? When the guy first made contact should you yell "Stop! Don't come any closer." What if the guy didn't stop? Maybe then you say "Stop right there! I have a gun." What if he still doesn't stop? What if he starts coming toward you even faster? Do you shoot him? What does the clerk see here? Does she tell the police "Some random guy was just walking across the parking lot and this other crazy guy just pulls out and gun and shoots him."? Maybe you should just get back in your car and drive off when ignoring the guy didn't work. This is the only gas station in this town though. Do you have enough to make it to the next one? Let's say none of that happens and you're in the same situation as John, standing there with a knife poking your side. The bad guy is obviously serious. Do you pull your gun and shoot him? You'll get stabbed but you'll probably survive. A well placed shot will certainly kill the bad guy but a slit in your side proves he's an attacker and all the conditions are met for lethal force. Do you flee? You'll probably lose your car but nobody gets hurt.

Well, here's what John did: He look the guy in the eyes and ask him "Do you think Jesus Christ would approve of what you're doing tonight?" The guy put his knife back in his pocket, apologized, and walked away.

I think Luke 12:12 applies here. "for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say."

There's no question you should think through your reaction to all the situations you can think of and that you should be proficient with whatever you plan on defending yourself with. Christianity isn't about being passive but if the time ever comes, I'll trust God over any of my skills or equipment.
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Re: true story of a close call

Postby JP171 » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:24 pm

For me personally I would have pulled my wallet out and thrown it, when the perp went to get it 2 to center mass, one less thief intent on causing mayhem. if you believe in God then by all means pray to him as you bleed out, me I trust my training and skills and equipment. dead thives steal no more
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Re: true story of a close call

Postby SRH78 » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:34 pm

There is a saying that God helps those that help themselves. I don't plan to burden him or rely on a sudden change of heart by an evil person.
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Re: true story of a close call

Postby jemail » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:40 pm

To clarify: I will shoot if I need to. Im saying I will trust God to help me make that decision.... Just like i think he helped this guy make the decision
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Re: true story of a close call

Postby jcharro » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:43 pm

In today's society especially in a huge city like the one i live in, criminals that are out to get you are stoned or just plain crazy. I can be dressed as a priest, I can be a pastor driving a van with a huge banner that says "Jesus Loves You".. They (Criminals) don’t give a crap. They see an opportunity to take what they desperately need; money, truck, car, jewelry, etc. If they have no respect to go into a church and steal and vandalize, what makes you think they are going respect you out in the real world? The thief you talked about robing the guy pumping gas probably realized he’s in a town of about 250, the clerk already saw his car, saw his face. He felt more guilt on robbing a guy who brought up Jesus and turned away. Here in the big city, you bring that up you’ll probably irritate them more and likely will shoot or stab you for stalling them on their score. Instinct and preparation is what could get you out of a situation like that in a big city. A situation like the one you described here in Dallas, Texas would have ended with a dead thief.
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Re: true story of a close call

Postby Abraham » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:14 pm

You said - "Do you give the guy a few bucks knowing it'll buy drugs or booze but probably make him go away?"

Honestly, that's a consideration?

Remember, the predator isn't ASKING if the victim has any spare change... he's ROBBING him, so there's no priority for the victim to worry about what his stolen money is to be used for..."

"All of the sudden the man walks around John's car and they're standing face to face and the man has a knife poking John in the side and he says "Give me some money or I'll kill you."

You suggested: "Maybe you should just get back in your car and drive off when ignoring the guy didn't work."

Remember: "The man has a knife poking John in the side"

Where is the option of just getting back in the car and driving off...?

"Do you think Jesus Christ would approve of what you're doing tonight?"

Asking this may work if the predator is a Christian, but what if the victim isn't a Christian?

Would the victim ask: Would Buddha or Mohammed or fill in the blank - approve of your robbing me and actually DEPEND on this question to thwart every robber?

Perhaps, you'd get a laugh out of the robber just before he stabs you and takes your money along with your life...

What if the victim is an Atheist? What's he to ask?

Honestly, if my life is immediately at stake, I have grave doubts as to the wisdom of getting philosophical as a defense...
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Re: true story of a close call

Postby TexasCajun » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:56 pm

First, as I've seen several versions of the OP's narrative in different forms on Facebook for a couple of years now; and second, since I find it hard to comprehend that an actual CHL instructor would devote class time to such a 'story' without mentioning situational awareness, evaluating a situation as it unfolds, or realistic alternatives to drawing a gun; I'm going to conlude that the OP's premise is complete & total BUNK.

But that's not to say that it doesn't have some merit. As CHL holders, the days of going about our mundane business in an almost mindless trance are over. Every situation, every encounter, every interaction has the potential to go south in a hurry. The difference is that now we've decided to take responsibility for our own & our loved ones' safety. So thinking about the scenario that the OP described is a useful mental excercise that will hopefully benefit someone in the future.

The first thing to think about is situational awareness. There's no reason that someone up to no good should be able to exit a vehicle, cross a convenience store parking lot, shout out a 'greeting', and get within arms reach of you if you are paying attention to your surroundings. Being aware of what's happening around you will give you the opportunity to evaluate the situation - is the person running toward you, hiding something in their hand, favoring one side as they approach. What's the tone of voice that the person is using? What's their manner - impaired, agitated, fearful. And even if there's no misgivings, there's no reason to allow someone to get within arms' reach of you. If I don't know a person, I don't have to trust that person & let them get close to me. The tone in my voice will let the person know that they'd better not come any closer. And any attempt to continue the approach will be met with a loud & forcefull "STOP!" My next action will depend on what they do...

And by the way. Do I think that a couple of bucks is worth someone's life? No, I do not. But in the OP's scenario, the bad guy has determined that a couple of bucks IS worth my life. And I will disagree to the best of my ability.
Opinions expressed are subject to change without notice.
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Re: true story of a close call

Postby JALLEN » Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:19 pm

What would Chris Kyle do?

Kyle is the author of American Sniper, a former SEAL who has more sniper kills credited than anyone in history. He faced this situation in a Dallas area gas station where two men came up while he was filling gas and demanded his keys. He said, "Sure. Let me get them" as he reached into the cab of his truck, and came out with a .45 pistol from his jacket, and shot them both.

Just like in the movies!
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Re: true story of a close call

Postby Jumping Frog » Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:07 pm

jemail wrote:Well, here's what John did: He look the guy in the eyes and ask him "Do you think Jesus Christ would approve of what you're doing tonight?" The guy put his knife back in his pocket, apologized, and walked away.

I think Luke 12:12 applies here. "for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say."

There's no question you should think through your reaction to all the situations you can think of and that you should be proficient with whatever you plan on defending yourself with. Christianity isn't about being passive but if the time ever comes, I'll trust God over any of my skills or equipment.

It's God's job to judge the wicked. It's our job to make the meeting possible.
-Bob . . . NRA Life member, TSRA Life member, TFC member, JFPO member, and OFCC Patron member

This froggie ain't boiling! Shall not be infringed! Μολών Λαβέ
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Re: true story of a close call

Postby Topbuilder » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:52 pm

I think keeping the pump handle between you and anyone approaching on foot is a good idea. Even if you are not done pumping, remove the handle and keep it between you and the threat. A "loaded" gas nozzle beats a knife.
My neighbor expierenced this exact senario. She removed the nozzle, pointed it at the person, looked him in the eyes and said "Go away" He did. Might have been his lucky day. She shoots the Glock league... and she was packin'. :thumbs2:
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