DWI conviction and CHL

[jr0ck]

I realize that a DWI conviction (class B misdem) disqualifies you for 5 years from the date of conviction. But in another state, like Louisiana, it only disqualifies you for a year. So I have a few questions here.

1. Why does a non-violent misdemeanor disqualify you at all? If you don't have your gun in the car, or on you, isn't the misdemeanor punishment enough? If you do have it, you get a slew of other charges with it... So again, isn't that punishment enough?

2. If you change residency to another state, and then apply in that state, wouldn't Texas recognize your reciprocity anyway? Or is there some kind of safe-guard in place to catch this loop hole? I realize its not realistic to pick up your whole life and move for a CHL. But i'm just curious.

Thanks in advance!

[E.Marquez]

I realize that a DWI conviction (class B misdem) disqualifies you for 5 years from the date of conviction. But in another state, like Louisiana, it only disqualifies you for a year. So I have a few questions here.

1. Why does a non-violent misdemeanor disqualify you at all? If you don't have your gun in the car, or on you, isn't the misdemeanor punishment enough? If you do have it, you get a slew of other charges with it... So again, isn't that punishment enough?

!

Why? Perhaps it's not looked at as punishment.. Perhaps the state feels, if one can not be trusted with a 5,000 lb deadly weapon (ie driving while intoxicated), you should not be given a license to carry a concealable deadly weapon .

And since you asked, no, a slap on the wrist, no real jail time, and mostly just a monetary and basic time inconvenience that is a DWI convection is not punishment enough

[jr0ck]

I realize that a DWI conviction (class B misdem) disqualifies you for 5 years from the date of conviction. But in another state, like Louisiana, it only disqualifies you for a year. So I have a few questions here.

1. Why does a non-violent misdemeanor disqualify you at all? If you don't have your gun in the car, or on you, isn't the misdemeanor punishment enough? If you do have it, you get a slew of other charges with it... So again, isn't that punishment enough?

!

Why? Perhaps it's not looked at as punishment.. Perhaps the state feels, if one can not be trusted with a 5,000 lb deadly weapon (ie driving while intoxicated), you should not be given a license to carry a concealable deadly weapon .

And since you asked, no, a slap on the wrist, no real jail time, and mostly just a monetary and basic time inconvenience that is a DWI convection is not punishment enough

Thanks for the feedback, but its not just a monetary inconvenience. So I kind of disagree with you on that.

1. Community Service (40 hours at an animal shelter). This would be a good experience but you do not get to interact with the animals at all. They remove the animal, you clean the crap. Then do laundry, wash cages, do dishes, etc.

2. Probation (comes with a lot of terms)
a. no gun/ammo ownership OR transfer.
b. cant leave the county without 2 weeks notice AND permission(which may not be granted)
c. high risk insurance + hardship license so you can drive to work
d. random drug/alcohol tests (really just at your check ins)
e. home visits from your PO and you _must_ invite them in
f. no changing jobs without permission from PO
g. provide breath samples with no probably cause if asked by LE
h. submit evaluation of your education skills (a bachelors degree will eliminate this)
i. no alcohol in your house, and you are not allowed to consume alcohol for the year you are on probation. (kind of obvious)

3. The initial 2-3 days in jail you get with the arrest.
4. DWI Education course. This means you go to a 12 hour DWI education class. You _must_ pass the test, or repeat the class.
If you really make your PO angry.
5. 90 day outpatient treatment. This means you go to a class 2 days a week for 3 months.

If you think the attitude you get from LE is bad, you should see how a PO acts.

Coming back to the point. Isn't the year of not being allowed to own guns while on probation, as well as all the hoops you have to jump through enough? Keep in mind, you dont have to be over .08. They just have to suspect impairment and you refuse tests, and you get a DWI charge.

[tomtexan]

Thanks for the feedback, but its not just a monetary inconvenience. So I kind of disagree with you on that.

1. Community Service (40 hours at an animal shelter). This would be a good experience but you do not get to interact with the animals at all. They remove the animal, you clean the crap. Then do laundry, wash cages, do dishes, etc.

2. Probation (comes with a lot of terms)
a. no gun/ammo ownership OR transfer.
b. cant leave the county without 2 weeks notice AND permission(which may not be granted)
c. high risk insurance + hardship license so you can drive to work
d. random drug/alcohol tests (really just at your check ins)
e. home visits from your PO and you _must_ invite them in
f. no changing jobs without permission from PO
g. provide breath samples with no probably cause if asked by LE
h. submit evaluation of your education skills (a bachelors degree will eliminate this)
i. no alcohol in your house, and you are not allowed to consume alcohol for the year you are on probation. (kind of obvious)

3. The initial 2-3 days in jail you get with the arrest.
4. DWI Education course. This means you go to a 12 hour DWI education class. You _must_ pass the test, or repeat the class.
If you really make your PO angry.
5. 90 day outpatient treatment. This means you go to a class 2 days a week for 3 months.

If you think the attitude you get from LE is bad, you should see how a PO acts.

Hmmm....that is a lot of inconvenience. There is a simple solution to all of that nonsense. Don't drink and drive!

[E.Marquez]

Yup, and from my perspective as a father, husband, human, Senior Army leader...
What you just posted is no more then a minor inconvenience that has little to no lasting effect as a deterrent to keep folks from drive while intoxicated, or doing it a second time (3rd., 4th, 5th)

All that aside...
Im just fine with the state of Texas denying an applicant convicted of DWI a concealed hand gun licence. I'd be more then just fine if there was a 10 year ban on having a drivers licence for the 1st DWI convection and a 25 year at hard labor sentence if caught driving on a DWI suspended licence.

[jr0ck]

Yup, and from my perspective as a father, husband, human, Senior Army leader...
What you just posted is no more then a minor inconvenience that has little to no lasting effect as a deterrent to keep folks from drive while intoxicated, or doing it a second time (3rd., 4th, 5th)

All that aside...
Im just fine with the state of Texas denying an applicant convicted of DWI a concealed hand gun licence. I'd be more then just fine if there was a 10 year ban on having a drivers licence for the 1st DWI convection and a 25 year at hard labor sentence if caught driving on a DWI suspended licence.

Its easy to say that from the other side. But you clearly aren't putting yourself in my shoes. Ever been to jail? I would bet not. That experience alone is life changing. I have no prior record. The idea that a cop gets that much power over me simply because I consumed alcohol is enough for me to not drink again regardless of legality.

Additionally, there is no need for more harsh penalties as the second constitutes dependence, and therefore prevents a CHL for (i believe) 10 years. The third is a felony(no chl for life).

[E.Marquez]

Its easy to say that from the other side.

It's neither easy to mean what i have said, nor is it said glibly.. But it is not meant as a personal attack.. I have said what I believe and feel.. Enough with that.. your questions was:

1. Why does a non-violent misdemeanor disqualify you at all? If you don't have your gun in the car, or on you, isn't the misdemeanor punishment enough? If you do have it, you get a slew of other charges with it... So again, isn't that punishment enough?

That is what the state representatives believe is appropriate, and no, it is not punishment enough IMHO.

2. If you change residency to another state, and then apply in that state, wouldn't Texas recognize your reciprocity anyway?

Yes, assuming the state you get licensed in has reciprocity for TX.

[gigag04]

Who says DWI is a non-violent misdemeanor?

[03Lightningrocks]

I have a pretty big issue with DWI/DUI also. People who drive while intoxicated are a risk to my loved ones and I take that personal.

The penalties listed are nothing compared to the crime committed.

[MoJo]

Who says DWI is a non-violent misdemeanor?

Agreed gigago4 - - - DWI turns into a violent assault when the drunk crashes into a mini van with a family in it and kills the mom and kids and leaves the dad in a wheel chair. It turns violent when the drunken slob decides to run from the police. Who says making an arrest of an intoxicated subject who thinks he's the incredible hulk and takes on half the police department putting two of the officers in the ER isn't violent? No, it's a violent crime.

I think first offense DWI should be a third degree felony with 5 years in the slammer.

[gigag04]

Guess ill actually answer the two questions..


1. No real idea but I would hazard a guess that it demonstrates an inability to follow the rules/obey the law, and poor decision making. Both important factors when carrying a deadly weapon.

2. Yes - but LA does lots of things different.

As an aside, anyone know how many times the average person arrested for DWI has driven drunk before they have even caught?

[Redneck_Buddha]

5 year wait for chl a after DUI? Playing the world's smallest violin here.

[MoJo]

As an aside, anyone know how many times the average person arrested for DWI has driven drunk before they have even caught?

CBS news says 68.

[talltex]

Who says DWI is a non-violent misdemeanor?

I would say that in many cases. If the person is stopped and arrested for DWI in a case where there was no accident...no injury...no property damage...no other violation other than being over the legal BAC limit, then how would you consider it a "violent misdemeanor"? One other part of the punishment that was NOT mentioned and jr0ck may not be aware of, is that he now has a PERMANENT conviction record. In DWI cases, unlike other misdemeanor (and many felony offenses), successful completion of probation, if granted, does NOT set aside the conviction. That change to the law took effect January 1, 1984. I am painfully aware of it because I was charged with DWI in January that year. Never been arrested before or since, but that shows up on my record over a quarter of a century later. Had I been arrested for burglary, car theft, assault etc... and been given probation as a first time offender with a clean record, THOSE convictions would not be on my record today. I can promise Mr. Marquez, that is much more than a "minor inconvenience". As for a first time offender being denied a driver's license for 10 years, how is he supposed to get back and forth to work...keeping a job is a condition of probation...I live in a rural area and it's not uncommon for people to have to drive over 100 miles a day going to their job and back. Unless the offender lives in a metro area, there IS no public transportation available. The idea that anyone should be sentenced to "25 years hard labor" for any kind of driving with a suspended license charge is ridiculous...that just results in making a criminal out of someone simply trying to make a living. I can't understand why anyone would want to ruin some young man's life by slapping on such harsh punishments in cases where no one was injured. Leave the judiciary some room to make allowances for individual circumstances on a case by case basis...that's their job...and that's what JUSTICE is about. There is no "one size fits all" when it comes to peoples lives, and strict mandatory sentences as well as "zero tolerance" policies in schools are just wrong. There's a huge difference between an honor roll student who accidentally shows up at school with a knife in the bed of his truck from moving his grandmother over the weekend, and a gangbanger carrying a razor in his pocket in class...yet they both receive the same suspension and alternative education classes, because the adminstrators don't want to take the heat for making a decision that's fair and just and prefer to hide behind their "policy". There's also a huge difference between a guy holding up a convenience store to steal cigarettes and money to buy crack, and another guy who's lost his job getting caught stealing bread and milk to feed his kid. What has happened to common sense and compassion in this country.

[talltex]

As an aside, anyone know how many times the average person arrested for DWI has driven drunk before they have even caught?

CBS news says 68.

oh well... if CBS news says it.... (be kinda' interesting to know the methodology they used to arrive at that statistic though)