Assassins and the Cooper Color Code

[O6nop]

[So, TXI, what do you suggest?

I don't read books or study tactics on the internet. I go to schools. Live, hands on real scenarios.

The little game of squirt each other with a water pistol MIGHT help you to be more aware of your surroundings, but IMO, it limits what you look for. Like only other college aged students.

Real scenario =
Genuine imitation

And all the participants in your school, aren't they the limit of your scenarios? Or the paper/cardboard targets?
I'd like to be able to go to some of these schools as well, but I haven't been able to swing it.

I really don't know, however ... the extent of my training has been 1 day type classes 3-5 hours each and a little bit of IDPA.

I do have plans to take the next available weekend advanced pistol course from KR Training.

This is where I've taken most of my classes since my CHL. I think he runs a very good program. You'll enjoy it.

[Jeremae]

One of the most effective ways humans learn is through Play (or games). All simulation training is a game (The military even calls them warGAMES). Denigrating a game played for fun is an attempt to say "I don't play games, I train for REAL and therefore I'm better than you." This often turns out to be an inaccurate world view based upon EGO.

For example this particular game. I first played Killer in the middle 70's and have played various versions since. It is an excellant tool to teach Situational Awareness and is even better than Hands On Real Life Scenarios taught at a professional school. Why? Because it is played real time during real life and you have no preplanned scenario to solve, no obvious target to hit or avoid. I found that I wasn't keying on a type of person but a particular set of actions, so if my minister at church were to start a motion as if drawing his squirt gun I would begin my move to avoid the shot and draw to return fire. Many serious martial arts school incorporate this technique into training requiring all students to be ready to defnd themselves from an unexpected attack from their teachers at ALL times.

The perinial(sp) argument between Tac Shooters and Gamers in IDPA is a similar ego argument. IDPA is a GAME. Most people who complain about gamers are really upset because the gamer plays the game better than they do.

[fadlan12]

I think it sounds like a live action dungeons and dragons game. It may help raise your level of awareness but you can also become paranoid. Possibly bad habits too, "any hit is considered a kill".
Plus its a squirt gun, I'll bet it feels nothing like your perfered carry weapon.
How do other people react to your actions during the game? I imagine the cops would be called due to bystanders not aware of the "game" .

[NcongruNt]

I think it sounds like a live action dungeons and dragons game. It may help raise your level of awareness but you can also become paranoid. Possibly bad habits too, "any hit is considered a kill".

The any hit is a kill is to simplify the gameplay enough to no have to have a referee follow everyone playing, which would be both impractical and defeat the point of the game. It is the same way most paintball games are run. You don't happen to be a member of the PTA with that D&D comment, do you? That seems a little overblown.

Plus its a squirt gun, I'll bet it feels nothing like your perfered carry weapon.
How do other people react to your actions during the game? I imagine the cops would be called due to bystanders not aware of the "game" .

Actually, my water pistol, being full-sized 1911 dimension full of water probably weighs about the same as my 21oz PA63, which is my carry weapon as soon as my plastic arrives. The water gun was also significantly bulkier.

As far as the danger from cops, I showed some that I know what it looked like in my hand, as well as tucked in my belt, and they said it obviously looked like a toy. It was made of bright transparent yellow plastic with glitter flecks in it. They did give me the obligatory "if a police officer questions you about it, cooperate and don't make any quick movements and do what you are told" warning, which was already common sense to me. The only time I suspect it was mistaken for a real gun was on the bus. The very bottom if it is black, and it was tucked at 4:00, butt forward. I noticed the bus driver looking at me through her mirror and giving a description of me over the radio. To diffuse that situation in progress, I slowly pulled it out so that it was obvious it was a toy and squirted my hand with it, like I was playing with it. Nothing ever came of it.

[NcongruNt]

Actually, this is the description of the course I meant to post: http://www.krtraining.com/KRTraining/AT ... TB/at.html. It's very detailed and revealing. It's long, but a great read.

[Venus Pax]

Sounds fun.

[fadlan12]

No not a pta member but a former D&D player (not live action though). The concern to me is taking it CHL and self defense lightly. The bus incident could have been bad, he may not known it was water (like some other liquid) and had police remove you from the bus.

Just think that play acting like that could lead to a negative light. What happens when you get your CHL? will you continue the game? What if someone came to you and acted like they were drawing and you shot them? whoops he had a squirt gun.

Honestly enjoy training and would like to participate in something like that but months at a time? enjoy.

[kauboy]

One of the most effective ways humans learn is through Play (or games). All simulation training is a game (The military even calls them warGAMES). Denigrating a game played for fun is an attempt to say "I don't play games, I train for REAL and therefore I'm better than you." This often turns out to be an inaccurate world view based upon EGO.

For example this particular game. I first played Killer in the middle 70's and have played various versions since. It is an excellant tool to teach Situational Awareness and is even better than Hands On Real Life Scenarios taught at a professional school. Why? Because it is played real time during real life and you have no preplanned scenario to solve, no obvious target to hit or avoid. I found that I wasn't keying on a type of person but a particular set of actions, so if my minister at church were to start a motion as if drawing his squirt gun I would begin my move to avoid the shot and draw to return fire. Many serious martial arts school incorporate this technique into training requiring all students to be ready to defnd themselves from an unexpected attack from their teachers at ALL times.

The perinial(sp) argument between Tac Shooters and Gamers in IDPA is a similar ego argument. IDPA is a GAME. Most people who complain about gamers are really upset because the gamer plays the game better than they do.

Well said sir. Well said. +100

[cyphur]

I don't see much of a difference between that game and military training, in regards from potential benefit. We play advanced paintball and expensive, realistic laser tag. Albeit with blanks, real explosives and well trained moderators.....


If you think that simply b/c "getting wet" can't get you into the same mindset of "getting shot", then I think you underestimate the power of the human mind. I've played games like this before, and the mindset dictates the reality of the game - not the end result of it.

[NcongruNt]

No not a pta member but a former D&D player (not live action though). The concern to me is taking it CHL and self defense lightly. The bus incident could have been bad, he may not known it was water (like some other liquid) and had police remove you from the bus.

Just think that play acting like that could lead to a negative light. What happens when you get your CHL? will you continue the game? What if someone came to you and acted like they were drawing and you shot them? whoops he had a squirt gun.

Honestly enjoy training and would like to participate in something like that but months at a time? enjoy.

I think your concerns with it being "like" D&D can apply to anything. Anyone unable to distinguish a game from reality has no business carrying a handgun. As far as the bus thing goes, I'm not going to agonize over what could have been. When a concern came up, I handled it appropriately. If it came to anything more, I'd handle it when the time came. I'm not going to sit here and agonize over whether carrying a squirt gun or a Nalgene bottle full of water attached to my backpack is going to make a bus driver think i have some sort of liquid explosive or poison.

As far as playing the game itself, I plan not to, for the reasons you expressed. I am considering becoming the organizer of this year's game, instead.

Most Assassins games don't last 4 months. It's usually more like a few weeks. The reasons ours took so long was because it was spread over such a large area, with so many people, and the organizer was slow to notify us of new target assignments (like when someone gets taken out by their target).

[Tote 9]

Sounds like fun to me. Games are suppose to be fun wheather you are
a kid or an adult. I'm 65 yrs. old and I still like playing games, even kids
games. This particular game is also good training for a CHL holder to
retain in his mind all the time if he can.

I try to be in aware all the time, but to be in code yellow as TX. said he
was during his entire shift, I would freak out. That is why I always said
it takes a special person to be a LEO. I couldn't live like that.

[austin]

We called it Killer. I played it in HS, College and in the Army.

One of the variants allows IEDs and Carbombs. I won the biggest game of Killer I've ever been in with with Carbombs - 120 starters. We were allowed water pistols, water rifles, and rubber swords/knives as well.

You do get paranoid. You do tricks to drop your followers. You check your car. You park so you can check your car. You set up a hide to watch your target. You set up a hide to see if you can find your "killer". You keep notes. You learn how to sneak up on things. You check your house and doors.

I did a lot of training in the Army in small unit tactics including MOUT using MILES and observers. Moving downrange while rounds are flying around you or moving into a flanking position under disciplined fire takes a lot of practice.

The worst situation is a meeting engagment in tall grass. You might as well withdraw because its just going to be a mess.

I also did some paintball games, but the problem with paintball has always been the lack of range on the weapons and the fact that most cover for paintballs is not real life cover. The tactics used for small units just don't work. I stopped paintball for that reason.

I hear simunitions really gets people focused. At Gunsite I met two SWAT trainers who used simunitions a lot. They said that most officers were fine using blanks, but when the sims started, many would just freeze or lose focus. The big things were ineffective use of cover ( legs or butt sticking out ), missing the targets, failure to perform immediate action for stoppages or failing to reload.

[kauboy]

I think plenty of evidence has been given to show that, even though it may be a game, much can be learned from such games.

[Lindy]

The game can certainly be valuable. The danger, though, for a person with a CHL is to make sure to separate the game from real life. Shooting a game opponent with one's real carry weapon would not be a useful thing to do...

It's certainly possible to live in Condition Yellow for long periods of time when outside one's residence - or even in it, as in a war zone or other hostile area. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Anyone who carries on the street should be in Condition Yellow all the time.

KR Training is not the only facility in Texas which is licensed to offer Simunition training. I know of a number of such facilities, including the one I work at.

However, if they are offering it to civilians, they are doing so in violation of their licensing agreement with the company which makes the equipment and ammunition, which restricts such training to military and law enforcement personnel. And the masks which are shown in the pictures on their web site are not adequate protection for Simunition use.

Paintball and airsoft guns can be valuable training tools, given knowledge of how to set up the scenarios. It's not just a matter of people shooting at each other.

[NcongruNt]

KR Training is not the only facility in Texas which is licensed to offer Simunition training. I know of a number of such facilities, including the one I work at.

However, if they are offering it to civilians, they are doing so in violation of their licensing agreement with the company which makes the equipment and ammunition, which restricts such training to military and law enforcement personnel. And the masks which are shown in the pictures on their web site are not adequate protection for Simunition use.

If you believe this to be true, I would encourage you to contact Karl for clarification on this. He has been apparently running the simunition training stuff for a while, so I doubt the issue has never come up. When you get an answer (Karl is pretty quick to respond to e-mails), let us know what he says here.