Delivery drivers

[OnceFired]

Hi all

My understanding of TX law is that a CHL permits the owner to bring the weapon into the car (loaded or not) into a concealed location. This can be anywhere, as long as it is not immediately visible. Further to my understanding, this is an improvement of the castle doctrine as it applies to vehicles as an extension of the home.

Now let's cross reference that with being an employee of any delivery company. Let's further get specific by eliminating any company-owned vehicles - we're dealing purely with employee-owned transportation.

It is my understanding that said employee can carry a firearm in the car regardless of what the employer wishes. Now, physically carrying the firearm beyond the vehicle enters the realm of employee handbook violations.

The company I am basing this question off of has a policy of "employees must not carry weapons"

My question would be this - is "carrying" the act of possessing the weapon on your person, or is the "concealed possession in the vehicle" enough to meet the legal definition of "carry weapons"?

ZA

[AEA]

You are talking about two entirely different things (CHL vs MPA).

But one thing is applicable to both. Your Employer "Policy".

[Keith B]

Hi all

My understanding of TX law is that a CHL permits the owner to bring the weapon into the car (loaded or not) into a concealed location. This can be anywhere, as long as it is not immediately visible. Further to my understanding, this is an improvement of the castle doctrine as it applies to vehicles as an extension of the home.

Now let's cross reference that with being an employee of any delivery company. Let's further get specific by eliminating any company-owned vehicles - we're dealing purely with employee-owned transportation.

It is my understanding that said employee can carry a firearm in the car regardless of what the employer wishes. Now, physically carrying the firearm beyond the vehicle enters the realm of employee handbook violations.

The company I am basing this question off of has a policy of "employees must not carry weapons"

My question would be this - is "carrying" the act of possessing the weapon on your person, or is the "concealed possession in the vehicle" enough to meet the legal definition of "carry weapons"?

ZA

I think it really depends. If you are on the payroll and using your car for company business, then you are under their rules on possesion. This would hold especially true if they are reimbursing you for mileage, paying a vehicle usage per diem, etc.

Now, if you contract to a company and YOUR company (you) own the vehicle and only work under contract, it may be a different scenario.

[OnceFired]

It seems to me that a driver does not give up any of his personal rights when driving his vehicle - whether he represents an employer, or not. He still has all his rights at all times. The employer has no license on or standing toward the vehicle at any time UNLESS the driver (and vehicle by extension) is involved in illegal activity. Until then the company has no claim because they have no legal standing.

I could certainly see physically carrying a pistol on one's person being a very big problem for the driver. However, once the driver is no longer in his own personal domain, and is now very specifically fulfilling his employed duty, we have a much different situation.

But inside the car is a far more grey area.

ZA

[EEllis]

Company policies have little bearing on the law and none in this case. You are free to carry under a chl or have a gun in a car under MPA but if your employer finds out they are free to fire you and it would be with cause which can affect your ability to receive unemployment, benefits, insurance, etc.

[Natesac]

I think it really depends. If you are on the payroll and using your car for company business, then you are under their rules on possesion. This would hold especially true if they are reimbursing you for mileage, paying a vehicle usage per diem, etc.

Now, if you contract to a company and YOUR company (you) own the vehicle and only work under contract, it may be a different scenario.

So would Texas Labor Code, Chapter 52, Subchapter G, Section 52.061 not apply if the employee was using his/her vehicle for company business and being paid mileage?

I understand the company not permitting on body carry while making deliveries, delivery drivers would frequently run into 30.06 and other prohibited areas.

[Jumping Frog]

Now, if you contract to a company and YOUR company (you) own the vehicle and only work under contract, it may be a different scenario.

Independent contractors under lease to a motor carrier typically have a "no illegal drugs, alcohol, or firearms" clause in the contract. Breach of contract is grounds for contract termination.

So would Texas Labor Code, Chapter 52, Subchapter G, Section 52.061 not apply if the employee was using his/her vehicle for company business and being paid mileage?

That statute addresses possessing or transporting firearms and ammunition in vehicle on a company parking lot. It has no bearing on driving around town with a gun in your car.

Bottom line, you've been given the answer already: it is not a criminal offense that you can be charged with, but you can certainly be fired from the job.

[nightmare69]

If I was you I would carry and not a say a word about it. I also love how employers say they have the *right* to search your personal vehicle, no they do not.

[bdickens]

"Concealed means Concealed."

[OnceFired]

Yeah, that is what I thought.

Law allows it, regardless of what the employment agreement requires. I'd rather be safe than sorry.

ZA

[rockinar]

Yeah, that is what I thought.

Law allows it, regardless of what the employment agreement requires. I'd rather be safe than sorry.

ZA

Law allows it, but law also allows them to fire you if they find out. And then when you go to apply for a new job, future potential employers will be told "He was fired for carrying a weapon". Good luck finding a new job. There's a string of applicants that have no issues and have not violated company policy. The decision you have to make "Is it worth it?" If you're single, 20 years old and delivering pizzas, it probably is. If you're 40 years old, have a good paying job as an electrician, have a family to support, probably not.

I myself don't hire people who got fired for violating company policy. ANY violation.

[snorri]

Speak for yourself. I'm older than 20 and I think I still have many good years left of a life worth defending.

[OnceFired]

It's a risk I would take. I'd rather be hedging my bets against being robbed, mugged, etc than hedge my bets on employment.

ZA

[jmra]

I can remember a few years back in New Orleans pizza delivery drivers getting held up by kids with guns. Until one day they ran into a driver who was armed. Wound up getting into a shoot out with the suspects. One of the deceased suspects was a 12 year old and the younger brother of a teenager in the youth group of my Father's inner city Church.
It was very tragic any way you looked at it. Of course everyone from the hood wanted to string up the driver cause after all he didn't have to kill that poor little boy over a few dollars.
For years after that and I guess to this day, everyone assumes drivers are armed.

[Jumping Frog]

Only downside you are facing with potential criminal aspects is if a delivery is to a legitimately prohibited place: federal institution, secured area of refinery, inside a school building, TSA-controlled premises, etc.

Sometimes you do not have the option of parking off premises, and then you are stuck. For example, delivering to a freight yard that handles air cargo.