Armed Security Question

[spolct]

After a few years off, i've started working as a valet again once or twice a week at a fairly nice restaurant in the DFW area. Said establishment has contracted with a security company to provide armed security for the premises. Typically they stay in the back looking after the cars back there, as well as escort staff from the back door to their cars. I've managed to avoid prolonged contact with these guys over the years, but last time i worked there regularly, i did not have a CHL. After a few shifts of experimenting with different setups, i've found the most comfortable to be my OWB black pancake holster. We wear black pants, and a dark untucked button down shirt. The comfort of OWB vs. IWB is night and day, but given that even though my current shirt/undershirt combo generally covers the entire holster, occasionally the bottom angled part peeks out. I plan on being very cognizant of pulling the shirt tail(s) down before getting out of every car to ensure there are no issues.

The past two times i've been there, there have been 2 different guys. One guy really looked/acted to be on the special needs spectrum. Very nice, always smiling, not very observant of his surroundings, not a significant threat. The other guy is the exact opposite. Tactical pants tucked into his boots, 3 sets of shiny cuffs, knife, full size glock, and who knows what else, along with a very intense personality. Fellow valets report that he has indicated that he's killed two guys whilst on duty. I'm not looking to have any kind of interaction with this guy, and that feeling started the first time I saw him and before I had heard all the stories (I know nothing of the details of his supposed shootings). My biggest concern is that somehow this guy gets a peek of my holster and decides to disarm me through various scenarios i've played out in my head, many of which end badly. It's silly that being robbed at gunpoint is way less of a fear than dealing with this guy. I've already decided that the first thing in a confrontation with this guy is to have a coworker or standerby to call the police. If he's drawn down on me, then of course i'll be obliged to comply with whatever. I'm thinking I may disclose my carrying status to one or two of my regular coworkers that i've known for a long time, so that they can have my back should something go down with him.

Hopefully he'll be just another in a long line of guys that have worked at that place, then moved on to other sites/accounts/clients/whatever. Hopefully he'll be gone sooner than me (I don't plan on working there longer than 6 months). Any thoughts/ideas on dealing with this guy in the meantime?

[jmra]

Why not just do a better job of concealing your weapon? Then the rest of your concerns would be a nonissue.

[spolct]

Why not just do a better job of concealing your weapon? Then the rest of your concerns would be a nonissue.

6 hours running around a parking lot, getting in and out of cars whilst armed kills my back. I'm not really built for that kind of work anymore, much less with a firearm poking at my backside. OWB is FAR more bearable, but the tradeoff is (total) concealment. I doubt that anyone will be getting a peek of the whole rig, but it's possible that a bit of holster might peek out. I think that the chance of it becoming a problem is rather small, and I'd like to not let one knucklehead dictate how i go about my business. When I was in the process of getting my mind right with carrying 24/7, the overzealous, trigger happy security guard was not a situation I really thought about. I've learned a ton from reading through this forum over the past 3-4 years, but I don't recall seeing a situation quite like this discussed, although there have been several discussions lately about private security.

[RX8er]

Why not try to make friends with him? This way, he doesn't think you are a threat if he happens to see your firearm. Also, I would think that he would be better trained and ask questions first. I'm not sure but I do not think any security guard has the right to disarm you. He probably has the ability to act on the employer's behalf and tell you to leave the premises while carrying and now you have been officially notified and have to leave and disarm.

[MadMonkey]

I'm not sure but I do not think any security guard has the right to disarm you.

In most cases they don't, but that doesn't stop some of them. There are plenty of stories out there.

(I've got about 5 years of security experience, including supervising some of these types)

[jmra]

Why not just do a better job of concealing your weapon? Then the rest of your concerns would be a nonissue.

6 hours running around a parking lot, getting in and out of cars whilst armed kills my back. I'm not really built for that kind of work anymore, much less with a firearm poking at my backside. OWB is FAR more bearable, but the tradeoff is (total) concealment. I doubt that anyone will be getting a peek of the whole rig, but it's possible that a bit of holster might peek out. I think that the chance of it becoming a problem is rather small, and I'd like to not let one knucklehead dictate how i go about my business. When I was in the process of getting my mind right with carrying 24/7, the overzealous, trigger happy security guard was not a situation I really thought about. I've learned a ton from reading through this forum over the past 3-4 years, but I don't recall seeing a situation quite like this discussed, although there have been several discussions lately about private security.

I understand your position, however it is your responsibility to properly conceal the firearm. If you are properly concealing the firearm then none of this should be an issue as "concealed is concealed". If you truly want to avoid an encounter with this individual over CC I would suggest taking whatever steps are necessary to ensure concealment is not compromised. Given the fact that you know OWB carry with your required attire at times exposes the holster and thus the presence of a firearm, the responsible thing to do would be to alter the attire or change the method of carry - all MHO of course.

[RX8er]

I'm not sure but I do not think any security guard has the right to disarm you.

In most cases they don't, but that doesn't stop some of them. There are plenty of stories out there.

(I've got about 5 years of security experience, including supervising some of these types)

Now, some of those scenarios are running through my mind.

[The_Busy_Mom]

Why not just do a better job of concealing your weapon? Then the rest of your concerns would be a nonissue.

6 hours running around a parking lot, getting in and out of cars whilst armed kills my back. I'm not really built for that kind of work anymore, much less with a firearm poking at my backside. OWB is FAR more bearable, but the tradeoff is (total) concealment. I doubt that anyone will be getting a peek of the whole rig, but it's possible that a bit of holster might peek out. I think that the chance of it becoming a problem is rather small, and I'd like to not let one knucklehead dictate how i go about my business. When I was in the process of getting my mind right with carrying 24/7, the overzealous, trigger happy security guard was not a situation I really thought about. I've learned a ton from reading through this forum over the past 3-4 years, but I don't recall seeing a situation quite like this discussed, although there have been several discussions lately about private security.

When CHL classes were 8-10 hours, part of my class included concealment options. I think you should look into a compression shirt or compression shorts with built in 'holster' for your gun.

The compression shirt might actually be more comfortable for you since it won't be on your hip while you are getting in/out of vehicles.

As far as dealing with the armed security, it might be a little out of your comfort zone, but some friendly words and a personal connection might go a long way. However, I would actually be more worried about a customer seeing your exposed firearm than the security guard. That would be a whole 'nother can of worms.

Remember, concealed means concealed, so correct concealment attire is going to important in your line of work.

TBM

[Jason K]

I don't know what type of gun you carry, but you may want to try a Kangaroo Carry holster or an ankle holster. Both work well for seated/driving positions without undue pressure on the back.

[jbarn]

I don't know what type of gun you carry, but you may want to try a Kangaroo Carry holster or an ankle holster. Both work well for seated/driving positions without undue pressure on the back.

This is one of the things I wanted to post.

Also OP< I think you are worrying over nothing. Your guard friend has not killed two people. You are as likely to be drawn down on by a CHLer who notices your gun as you are that guard.

[strider67]

Your guard friend has not killed two people.

The first thought that entered my mind. Old Chinese proverb: "The empty vessel makes the most noise".

I would just avoid him, stay concealed, and carry on.

[VMI77]

I carry outside the waistband, everything from a P938, to a snubbie, to a 1911, to a Glock 21, and no one has ever noticed. While I like the pancake style holsters better, for the Glocks I've used a Blackhawk Serpa which tends to stick out a little more. I've also used an ankle holster quite successfully with the P938 and snubbies, and an XDS witout the extended mag.

[jmra]

I carry outside the waistband, everything from a P938, to a snubbie, to a 1911, to a Glock 21, and no one has ever noticed. While I like the pancake style holsters better, for the Glocks I've used a Blackhawk Serpa which tends to stick out a little more. I've also used an ankle holster quite successfully with the P938 and snubbies, and an XDS witout the extended mag.

when wearing the proper attire OWB is not an issue. However, the OP stated that his work attire at times reveals the lower portion of the holster thus his concern. I'm sure this is not the case with your attire when you carry OWB.

[spolct]

Good thoughts on concealment. I have one carry gun, an LC9, and ~4 holsters. I've never really been able to come to terms with an ankle holster, and in this particular application it would be my last option. I'm weighing the shirt holster setup, but I'm concerned about the extra layer in the heat although I probably won't be working there come summer so it should be fine. A belly band might be an option, but it seems the shirt would be better suited for what I need.

I had kind of settled in to accepting the fact that part of my OWB holster might peek out given that most people don't pay attention to valets as they're getting in and out of cars. The process of pulling up someone's car (when I'd be most at risk of 'showing') is loaded with other things going on and most people probably wouldn't notice if I had purple boxers on over my pants, much less a flash of black leather between a dark grey shirt and black pants. At the end of the day, though, it might be a better choice to seek out a solution that offers total concealment, easy access, and 6 hour, on my feet, getting in and out of cars comfort. Like Keith Bontrager (bicycle manufacturer) is rumored to say: "light, cheap, strong: pick 2".

As for the security guard in question, I don't really think there is going to be a problem, but there's a remote chance it could happen, so I'd like to try to be prepared should something go down.

[FML]

Why not just do a better job of concealing your weapon? Then the rest of your concerns would be a nonissue.

That was true so many times I lost count.