Students with CHLs vs University Policy

[nightmare69]

I am a part time LEO employed with a private christian university. I've had a few students with CHLs ask me questions regarding state law vs university policy. First, the university's policy on "weapons"...

Under no circumstance is any person permitted to bring any weapon, licensed or
unlicensed, on to any university campus location, including any building, facility, or grounds owned, leased, or operated by the university. “Weapons” include but are not
limited to firearms, B.B. guns, pellet guns, paint guns, ammunition, swords, spears, blow
guns, martial arts weapons, crossbows, bows and arrows, switchblades, and all other
knives with a blade over five and one-half inches. A complete definition of “weapons”
may be found in Penal Code Section 46.

I know that students with CHLs can have their firearms and ammo secured in their vehicle on campus property so this policy needs to be updated.

Here are the questions I get asked the most, questions in red are my own.

1) I am a student who has a valid CHL and lives on campus in the dorms, am I allowed to bring my firearm into my dorm room or am I forced to leave it in my vehicle? I feel safer knowing the firearm is with me vs being in my vehicle with a chance of it being stolen.

If the room is under your control can you store the firearm inside? What does state law say about this?

2) Since there is no 30.06 signs posted anywhere on campus and no written notice in the college handbook, what is the worst that could happen if the university finds out I'm carrying in class?

The university may find a reason to expel them or ask CHL holders if they plan on carrying, slippery slope.

3) What are the chances on campus carry being passed during the next legislative session?

If I had to guess I would say the vast majority of admins and professors are not comfortable (or just flat out scared to death) of the thought of students being armed in class. I hope campus carry does pass and when the streets don't run red with blood and armed students don't go on a shooting spree just cause they failed a test I can be there to say, "I told you nothing bad was going to happen." I'm sure people had the same fears in 1996, 2007, and 2009.

[tbrown]

If the dorm is on campus and owned by the school, I think it would fall under 46.03 regardless of CHL or no.

"A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm ... on the physical premises of a school or educational institution"

"(c) In this section: (1) "Premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035."

"(g) An offense under this section is a third degree felony."

[nightmare69]

If the dorm is on campus and owned by the school, I think it would fall under 46.03 regardless of CHL or no.

"A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm ... on the physical premises of a school or educational institution"

"(c) In this section: (1) "Premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035."

"(g) An offense under this section is a third degree felony."

I thought Texas law referred to University's as "institutes of higher education." Are you sure the above is referring to a college or just a K-12 school?

[srothstein]

Texas does not define the term "school or educational institution" in the Penal Code, but by using both descriptions, I think it would cover all private universities also.

So, my answers to the OP and his students questions would include telling them to read the law for themselves, but that my opinion is that the school would have them arrested and charged if they are found with a weapon inside any building. I would emphasize to them that there is an exception to the parking lot law saying that it does not apply to schools, so they are not protected from any administrative actions if they are caught with the weapon in the parking lot, even if the criminal part does not apply.

And I would tell them that there is a slight chance of campus carry being passed, but the odds improve if they get active and help. They can contact the TSRA for more information on what to do and how they can help.

[Reds45ACP]

...And I would tell them that there is a slight chance of campus carry being passed, but the odds improve if they get active and help. They can contact the TSRA for more information on what to do and how they can help.

I would also add there is a well organized group called Students for Concealed Carry with a Texas chapter (I believe it was started herein Texas). Web site: http://texas.concealedcampus.org/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ConcealedCampus

[C-dub]

So, my answers to the OP and his students questions would include telling them to read the law for themselves, but that my opinion is that the school would have them arrested and charged if they are found with a weapon inside any building. I would emphasize to them that there is an exception to the parking lot law saying that it does not apply to schools, so they are not protected from any administrative actions if they are caught with the weapon in the parking lot, even if the criminal part does not apply.

Doesn't the parking lot law only apply to employees? Students are not necessarily employees. They can be, but most are not.

[b322da]

So, my answers to the OP and his students questions would include telling them to read the law for themselves, but that my opinion is that the school would have them arrested and charged if they are found with a weapon inside any building. I would emphasize to them that there is an exception to the parking lot law saying that it does not apply to schools, so they are not protected from any administrative actions if they are caught with the weapon in the parking lot, even if the criminal part does not apply.

I would hope that students at a university would be able to read and reason, and if they have questions about firearms law, reading the statutes would be a very valuable learning experience for them. After wending their way through the twists and turns and arguable ambiguities of Texas firearms law the time will have come to ask questions. A university student not willing to do so after being so advised exhibits both laziness and evidence that he is in the wrong place. It might also reflect on the reputation of the university, seeing students who may be accustomed to being fed information by their professors rather than looking it up themselves.

When that time comes, after they open up their minds a bit and have learned something through their own individual efforts, they might turn to more expert persons for guidance. This very forum is, BTW, an excellent source to which they might be referred. Meanwhile, they will have learned that perhaps even LEOs do not know all the answers -- a valuable thing for them to know, when "ignorance of the law is no defense," and they will also perhaps learn that even presumed "experts" often have different opinions even though the differing opinions each may have a reasonable basis.

The bottom line is that they may learn that they must sometimes answer their own questions as best they might -- another valuable lesson.

Jim

[C-dub]

I would hope that students at a university would be able to read and reason, ...

That's a tough call. Have you seen the recent video from Harvard where students are asked whether the US or ISIS is a greater threat to world peace? Not all of them said ISIS, but most did.

[Pawpaw]

So, my answers to the OP and his students questions would include telling them to read the law for themselves, but that my opinion is that the school would have them arrested and charged if they are found with a weapon inside any building. I would emphasize to them that there is an exception to the parking lot law saying that it does not apply to schools, so they are not protected from any administrative actions if they are caught with the weapon in the parking lot, even if the criminal part does not apply.

Doesn't the parking lot law only apply to employees? Students are not necessarily employees. They can be, but most are not.

GC §411.2032. TRANSPORTATION AND STORAGE OF FIREARMS AND
AMMUNITION BY LICENSE HOLDERS IN PRIVATE VEHICLES ON CERTAIN
CAMPUSES. (a) For purposes of this section:
(1) “Campus” means all land and buildings owned or leased by an institution of
higher education or private or independent institution of higher education.
(2) “Institution of higher education” and “private or independent institution of
higher education” have the meanings assigned by Section 61.003, Education
Code.
(b) An institution of higher education or private or independent institution of
higher education in this state may not adopt or enforce any rule, regulation,
or other provision or take any other action, including posting notice under
Section 30.06, Penal Code, prohibiting or placing restrictions on the storage or
transportation of a firearm or ammunition in a locked, privately owned or leased
motor vehicle by a person, including a student enrolled at that institution, who
holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under this subchapter and lawfully
possesses the firearm or ammunition:
(1) on a street or driveway located on the campus of the institution; or
(2) in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area located on the
campus of the institution.

[nightmare69]

Is it safe to say that if you are caught carrying and or having a firearm in your dorm its a F/3?

[victory]

Is it safe to say that if you are caught carrying and or having a firearm in your dorm its a F/3?

No different than a classroom. 46.03

[srothstein]

Thanks, Pawpaw, I had missed that section. I was thinking of the employer parking lot law.