concealed carry in Big Bend National Park OK with CHL?

[HadEmAll]

Yes. However, you cannot carry into federal buildings (ranger's office, gift shop, check-in building, etc.), even though they may not be posted with any kind of warning.

I can say for absolute certainty that every building where concealed carry is prohibited, is posted...

Because I am one of the Rangers that will say, "you are welcome to carry, as long as you keep it concealed and don't bring them into prohibited buildings"

Been to Big Bend plenty in last few years. Concealed carry is legal for sure in the park but if I remember the buildings are posted. Depending on the ranger you talk to they will just tell you about the rules or will be somewhat anti gun sounding. It's absolutely beautiful in the central and western part of the park. The eastern part of the park is more bland unless you do some strenuous hiking to remote locations. Enjoy!

The vast majority of my co workers are anti gun, and they get a twist in their panties when someone even mentions guns.

Interesting. In January I was at the Panther Junction station registering for a 2 night stay at Paint Gap 3. The desk Ranger, after I presented my DL, went into a short lecture on concealed carry in the Park. To the effect of "keep it concealed-but if necessary, protect yourself"

I was surprised at both her message, and that she had brought it up at all.

Does a Texas Driver's Licence trigger a flag in the Park system about that resident having a CHL? I had not mentioned or asked about the rules.

I love The Big Bend area. But I'd never be in the area unarmed.

This is the same trip where I was followed by a Border Patrol officer all the way from the Stillwell Store to the Persimmon Gap station at night with his lights off the whole time. I wrote about that in another post, where I was asking about presenting your CHL to a Federal LEO.

[Terlingueno]

Interesting. In January I was at the Panther Junction station registering for a 2 night stay at Paint Gap 3. The desk Ranger, after I presented my DL, went into a short lecture on concealed carry in the Park. To the effect of "keep it concealed-but if necessary, protect yourself"

I was surprised at both her message, and that she had brought it up at all.

Does a Texas Driver's Licence trigger a flag in the Park system about that resident having a CHL? I had not mentioned or asked about the rules.

I love The Big Bend area. But I'd never be in the area unarmed.

This is the same trip where I was followed by a Border Patrol officer all the way from the Stillwell Store to the Persimmon Gap station at night with his lights off the whole time. I wrote about that in another post, where I was asking about presenting your CHL to a Federal LEO.

A DL at the front desk doesn't, but an inquiry via TLETS does. When we issue a back country permit, we always tell folks the rules, and one of them is weapons/firearms.

[HadEmAll]

Thanks for the clarification. Can't wait until my next visit to the Park.

[oohrah]

lots of moutain lions in Big Bend.

[Terlingueno]

lots of moutain lions in Big Bend.

There are, yes. And very few people even see them, up close.

[HadEmAll]

My last trip I was eying some handmade trinkets on display on boulders in the Boquillas Canyon Overlook in the eastern part of the Park. Allegedly made by Boquillas residents to benefit their school children. Not supposed to buy them according to signs posted by the Park. I was the only person in the Overlook.

Anyway, a guy on the Mexican side of the Rio Grande, sitting next to a horse, proceeded to get on same horse, ride across the river, ride up the fairly steep hill into the Overlook, and indicate in Spanglish I supposed to buy from HIS stuff on the leftmost boulder, not from the other boulders, each of which had a container for money if you bought anything.

He stayed on horseback, was acting fairly bordeline aggressive, and was moving his horse around me closer than I was comfortable with. I had no idea if he was armed or not, but chose to extricate myself from the situation by casually walking back to my vehicle instead of standing there and telling him in my limited Spanish what he could do with his boulder. Kept him in view the entire time of course.

This trip I had a 4" Ruger GP100 in a gunpack carried at 12 o'clock, and a .38 LCR in the left front pocket. 125 grain Remington Express SJHP magnum loads in the GP100, and 125 grain Speer Gold Dot +P in the LCR.

I'll say nothing else about that except that 2-legged critters are why I go armed in Big Bend. And anywhere else for that matter.

I try to stay vigilant in the back country, but I'm thinking a mountain lion might be a fast moving target approaching from the blind side. I'm figuring a knife might be what's more useful in that situation, to cut it off of you after it's already latched on, if you're able. I check my 6 o'clock often.

[Keith B]

Keith,

With the greatest of respect, Keith, the rub here is that Sec. 39-17-1311 refers to Sec. 39-17-1302(a), which lists many things, but not, explicitly, a handgun. As put by an attorney with the state of Tennessee some years ago:

I am afraid that Mr. ***** points out one of the several inconsistencies in the Tennessee gun law. He is correct that the prohibition against carrying a weapon on parks and playgrounds (§39-17-1311) references a code section (§39-17-1302) that does not seem to include a handgun. To be consistent, §39-17-1311 should refer to a weapon described in §39-17-1307 instead of 1302 which lists the weapons you cannot even carry with a permit like a machine gun or sawed off shotgun. There is a similar inconsistency in the section setting out the defenses for carrying a gun on school property. The reason the law has these inconsistencies is that all the prohibitions such as parks and playgrounds (§ 39-17-1311) and school property (§39-17-1309) and judicial proceedings (§39-17-1306) and places where alcohol is served (§39-17-1305) were all written long before the gun permit law as we know it was enacted. With the exception of the carrying where alcohol is served section, which as you know has been amended fairly recently, the other restrictions were carryovers of prior law by the sentencing commission in 1989. The handgun carry permit law in roughly its present form was not enacted until 1996. When the permit law was written, the other restrictions were not amended accordingly so they do not reference the permit law as they probably should. Nor were they amended to clearly state whether a person with a carry permit is or is not allowed to carry a firearm in those restricted locations. However, the section pointed out by Mr. ***** appears to me to more of an incorrect citation rather than an inconsistency.

That the gun law is in need of revision is something that has been known for quite some time by those of us who work in the area. Unfortunately, guns have become such a controversial topic, I am not sure a nonsubstantive rewrite of the law could be accomplished now.

Even though Mr. ***** is correct that §39-17-1311 does not seem to specifically prohibit handguns (with or without a permit), as an attorney I would not advise a client that it is lawful to carry a gun on park property even with a permit and as a permit holder I would not do so.

This statement, which would not be unfairly summarized as saying "I don't really know," is a prime example of fancy lawyerly footwork in order to avoid answering the question, and unless things have changed without my knowledge, which is of course possible, the issue remains one lawyers can play with, subject perhaps to ad hoc determinations by an LEO, a prosecutor, or a judge, which confirms my personal intention to not CC a handgun while in a park in Tennessee.

Jim

Lawyer opinion, and not the AG, so I think you have to go with intent of the statute, which I believe was to allow concealed carry with a permit in the park unless specifically banned by ordiannce. However, they need to get the law changed and clarified to be safe.

[Keith B]

Keith,

With the greatest of respect, Keith, the rub here is that Sec. 39-17-1311 refers to Sec. 39-17-1302(a), which lists many things, but not, explicitly, a handgun. As put by an attorney with the state of Tennessee some years ago:

I am afraid that Mr. ***** points out one of the several inconsistencies in the Tennessee gun law. He is correct that the prohibition against carrying a weapon on parks and playgrounds (§39-17-1311) references a code section (§39-17-1302) that does not seem to include a handgun. To be consistent, §39-17-1311 should refer to a weapon described in §39-17-1307 instead of 1302 which lists the weapons you cannot even carry with a permit like a machine gun or sawed off shotgun. There is a similar inconsistency in the section setting out the defenses for carrying a gun on school property. The reason the law has these inconsistencies is that all the prohibitions such as parks and playgrounds (§ 39-17-1311) and school property (§39-17-1309) and judicial proceedings (§39-17-1306) and places where alcohol is served (§39-17-1305) were all written long before the gun permit law as we know it was enacted. With the exception of the carrying where alcohol is served section, which as you know has been amended fairly recently, the other restrictions were carryovers of prior law by the sentencing commission in 1989. The handgun carry permit law in roughly its present form was not enacted until 1996. When the permit law was written, the other restrictions were not amended accordingly so they do not reference the permit law as they probably should. Nor were they amended to clearly state whether a person with a carry permit is or is not allowed to carry a firearm in those restricted locations. However, the section pointed out by Mr. ***** appears to me to more of an incorrect citation rather than an inconsistency.

That the gun law is in need of revision is something that has been known for quite some time by those of us who work in the area. Unfortunately, guns have become such a controversial topic, I am not sure a nonsubstantive rewrite of the law could be accomplished now.

Even though Mr. ***** is correct that §39-17-1311 does not seem to specifically prohibit handguns (with or without a permit), as an attorney I would not advise a client that it is lawful to carry a gun on park property even with a permit and as a permit holder I would not do so.

This statement, which would not be unfairly summarized as saying "I don't really know," is a prime example of fancy lawyerly footwork in order to avoid answering the question, and unless things have changed without my knowledge, which is of course possible, the issue remains one lawyers can play with, subject perhaps to ad hoc determinations by an LEO, a prosecutor, or a judge, which confirms my personal intention to not CC a handgun while in a park in Tennessee.

Jim

Lawyer opinion, and not the AG, so I think you have to go with intent of the statute, which I believe was to allow concealed carry with a permit in the park unless specifically banned by ordinance. However, they need to get the law changed and clarified to be safe.

[Terlingueno]

I'll say nothing else about that except that 2-legged critters are why I go armed in Big Bend. And anywhere else for that matter.

Agree. The very same for myself.