Do you think CCW/CHL holders in US will be a Deterrent for Jihads?

CHL discussions that do not fit into more specific topics

Moderators: carlson1, Charles L. Cotton

User avatar

VMI77
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 5
Posts: 6096
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:49 pm
Location: Victoria, Texas

Re: Do you think CCW/CHL holders in US will be a Deterrent for Jihads?

#31

Post by VMI77 »

TXlaw1 wrote:
VMI77 wrote: They will launch Paris style attacks here. They killed 127 there. They could get similar or higher body counts here attacking a college football game or even the football crowd at a large high school. All places where large numbers of people congregate are potential targets....especially if those numbers are concentrated like at concerts or sporting events.
Correct me if I am wrong here, but if it is a PROFESSIONAL sporting event aren't concealed handguns prohibited outright - no 30.06 posting needed?

Also, after January 1, 2016, would the penalty for carrying into a PROFESSIONAL sporting event be a Class C misdemeanor as it will be for ignoring a 30.06 sign?
If you shoot your way in security is largely irrelevant. I don't attend sporting events so I haven't paid much attention to how the law affects CC there.
"Journalism, n. A job for people who flunked out of STEM courses, enjoy making up stories, and have no detectable integrity or morals."

From the WeaponsMan blog, weaponsman.com
User avatar

VMI77
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 5
Posts: 6096
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:49 pm
Location: Victoria, Texas

Re: Do you think CCW/CHL holders in US will be a Deterrent for Jihads?

#32

Post by VMI77 »

K.Mooneyham wrote:If the terrorists didn't care about an armed citizenry, you'd think they'd have gone at it harder here in the USA by now (not that they haven't done some damage). I think it's a combination of large, armed police forces and an armed citizenry that has limited their success. Oh, I understand they want to kill and many don't mind dying to do so. But, what good is just getting themselves killed, or only taking one or two people with you? No, they want the big scores like the attacks in Paris. And large armed police forces and a nation full of armed citizens may have muted things to some degree. Not to mention, a lot of people are already very angry about this stuff, it wouldn't take much to really fire a lot of them up. Unfortunately, I do believe that "gun free zones" are the most likely targets for terrorists, places like sporting events, amusement parks, and concert halls. It wouldn't take a lot of research to figure out the laws and where they would encounter the least resistance. Best to steer clear of places that increase your risk, IMHO.
There are plenty of places in the US where there is virtually no armed citizenry. Even in states like Texas the percentage of citizens armed in public is very small. All police are armed here unlike some countries in Europe, and on the whole the police here are probably better prepared to use their weapons than those in other countries, European countries in particular. In addition to our gun culture the military feeds a lot of people into police departments so our police are likely to be comparatively more aggressive.

I think we're seeing this in Europe first because the logistics of launching an attack there are simpler and on the whole Europe is a softer target (due to their policing methods, not their citizenry). It's easier and cheaper to get weapons and jihadis into Europe than into the US even with our open borders. That doesn't mean the effort isn't being made. I think logistics have been the greatest deterrence, not our police or citizenry. However, our open borders invite infiltration and attack so it is going to happen here sooner or later.
"Journalism, n. A job for people who flunked out of STEM courses, enjoy making up stories, and have no detectable integrity or morals."

From the WeaponsMan blog, weaponsman.com
User avatar

Topic author
BCGlocker
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 295
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:11 pm
Location: El Paso, TX
Contact:

Re: Do you think CCW/CHL holders in US will be a Deterrent for Jihads?

#33

Post by BCGlocker »

What can we do to prepare ourselves for the inevitable attacks?
Texas LTC Instructor
Texas SSO Instructor
USCCA Certified Instructor
Range Master Certified Instructor
User avatar

VMI77
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 5
Posts: 6096
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:49 pm
Location: Victoria, Texas

Re: Do you think CCW/CHL holders in US will be a Deterrent for Jihads?

#34

Post by VMI77 »

BCGlocker wrote:What can we do to prepare ourselves for the inevitable attacks?
Nothing except keeping our guard up as we should be doing anyway and staying away from places where they are likely to occur: places with large numbers of people concentrated in a relatively small location --like concerts and sporting events. But realistically, when they do occur any given one of us will be extremely unlikely to find themselves in the location that is under attack.

I'm not going to avoid going somewhere I want to go because of the very remote possibility of an attack. Even if there was one of these attacks every day the chances of any of us finding ourselves in the location under attack would be very very small --and there is no way there will be more than a few such attacks due to the logistics required to carry them out.

In my own case I don't live or work in a large urban area. I also have never liked crowds and actively avoid places where lots of people congregate...because I don't like crowds, not out of fear of being attacked. Any attacks that do occur are likely to occur in crowded venues in large urban areas so I expect to continue to do everything I normally do without ever even being near one.

Edited to add:

Well, according to this, you won't have to be in a crowded venue....they apparently drove all over Paris hitting targets of opportunity. Still, the odds of being at any location under attack are very small:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -ones.html
FIRST TWO ATTACKS: STADE DE FRANCE

- The attacks began at 8.17pm GMT at the Stade de France where the French football team was hosting Germany in an international friendly.

- The game was being watched by 80,000 spectators, among them was President Francois Hollande who had to be evacuated from the stadium.

- The first explosion, a suicide bombing, was at an entrance to the stadium. A guard said an explosives vest was found on one of the attackers as he was frisked trying to enter with a ticket. While trying to back away from security officers the militant detonated his vest. A second terrorist is believed to have blown himself minutes later. One person was killed in the explosions.

THIRD ATTACK: LE PETIT CAMBODGE AND LE CARILLON BAR

- At 8.25pm GMT a separate team of gunmen arrived in a Black Seat and attacked diners at popular Cambodian restaurant Le Petit Cambodge and Le Carillon bar in the trendy Canal Saint-Martin area of eastern Paris, killing 15.

FOURTH ATTACK: LA CASA NOSTRA PIZZERIA AND LA BELLE EQUIPE BAR

- The same unit then drove about 500 yards to La Casa Nostra pizzeria and opened fire on diners on the terrace of the restaurant, killing at least five people.

- From there, the militants drove around a mile south-east – apparently past the area of the Bataclan concert venue – to launch another attack, this time on La Belle Equipe bar in Rue de Charonne. At least 19 people died after the terrace was sprayed with bullets at 8.38pm GMT. The attackers then drove off.

FIFTH ATTACK: CAFÉ ‘COMPTOIR VOLTAIRE’


- Five minutes later, a separate attacker set off a suicide vest outside the outside cafe 'Comptoir Voltaire' on the Boulevard Voltaire and close to the Bataclan theatre.

SIXTH ATTACK: BATACLAN MUSIC HALL

- At 8.49pm GMT, the third group (believed to be three men and a woman) armed with AK-47s stormed the Bataclan music hall and began shooting members of the crowd. Survivors claim three blew themselves up and a fourth person was shot dead by police before they could detonate their bomb.

SEVENTH ATTACK: NEAR STADE DE FRANCE

At around 8.50pm GMT a third blast took place near the Stade de France, this time by a McDonald’s restaurant on the fringes of the stadium. The boom caused terror among spectators who had already been attempting to flee the stadium following the first two explosions.
"Journalism, n. A job for people who flunked out of STEM courses, enjoy making up stories, and have no detectable integrity or morals."

From the WeaponsMan blog, weaponsman.com
User avatar

misterlarry
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 390
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:35 pm
Location: The Woodlands

Re: Do you think CCW/CHL holders in US will be a Deterrent for Jihads?

#35

Post by misterlarry »

I expect the Jihadis will target highly populated gun free zones being the cowards that they are.
01/19/2013 CHL Class - 03/25/2013 CHL Arrived
NRA Life Member
NRA Basic Pistol Instructor
User avatar

bcooper
Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:27 am
Location: Cypress, Tx

Re: Do you think CCW/CHL holders in US will be a Deterrent for Jihads?

#36

Post by bcooper »

Simple answer for me. No it won't. If they want to commit Jihad, they will and try to take as many people with them along the way. I do think might a keep a lot more people alive because how many people carry though.

K.Mooneyham
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 2574
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:27 pm
Location: Vernon, Texas

Re: Do you think CCW/CHL holders in US will be a Deterrent for Jihads?

#37

Post by K.Mooneyham »

Well, I guess I expanded my answer past the original poster's parameter about CCW/CHL holders. A lot of Texans are armed in some form or fashion. They have guns in their vehicles, even if they don't have a CHL. An unknown number, not counting dedicated criminals, carry without having a CHL. The worst attack here in Texas took place in an essentially "gun free zone" at Fort Hood. The attack in Garland was shut down rather rapidly, thank goodness. I hate to sound overly optimistic and callous, but I really am hoping that if/when the bad guys make attacks in the USA, they will want to choose someplace(s) that are softer targets than our state.
User avatar

karder
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1380
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:14 pm
Location: El Paso

Re: Do you think CCW/CHL holders in US will be a Deterrent for Jihads?

#38

Post by karder »

I think that generally speaking, domestic jihadists will be more likely to seek out gun free zones with a lot of people to rack up high murder counts. The odds of a big terror attack in New York, LA or Washington seems more likely than Dallas, but no one can take anything for granted. Others have mentioned the Garland attack but that was at a very specific event which happened to be in Garland.
Bottom line is that armed people can make a big difference as was proven in the Oklahoma attack where one poor lady was beheaded by a jihadist who was then stopped by an armed citizen while attempting a second beheading. The national media has barely touched that story as it does not support their narrative. All we can do as individuals is focus on taking care of our families and neighbors, but the more Americans that determine to prepare to physically engage jihadists during an attack, the less damage they will be able to inflict. Jihadists are willing to die during their murderous rampages, but they come primarily to kill, not fight.
“While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue then will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader.” ― Samuel Adams
User avatar

Javier730
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1265
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:29 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Do you think CCW/CHL holders in US will be a Deterrent for Jihads?

#39

Post by Javier730 »

Overall no but pistol packing Americans will sure reduce the number of casualties.
“Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity.”
― Horace Mann
User avatar

Pariah3j
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 865
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:03 pm
Location: Webster

Re: Do you think CCW/CHL holders in US will be a Deterrent for Jihads?

#40

Post by Pariah3j »

I would say it is a yes and no sort of situation - 'No' because like it has been said before, mass murderers(terrorist included) are looking for soft/easy targets so they can get the most bang for the buck, thus I think they will tend to target those places in society where the law creates a unarmed shooting gallery. But the 'Yes' comes in as I would like to think our culture as a whole, esp after 9/11 isn't going to take it lying down and just take being shot up. There are more then enough of us out there that would rather go down fighting then cower and hope to live.
"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny" - Thomas Jefferson
User avatar

Middle Age Russ
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1402
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:44 am
Location: Spring-Woodlands

Re: Do you think CCW/CHL holders in US will be a Deterrent for Jihads?

#41

Post by Middle Age Russ »

The influence a person or a group of people may have on other folks, even Jihadis, is related to a number of factors. I sincerely doubt that a Jihadi or similar committed attacker would be influenced by other people's feelings, beliefs, standing in the community, existing laws, or many other sorts of things that influence most people in society. One potential factor that might influence such a person, though, is how others may respond to an attack does not precede the intended victims' awareness of it. I would surmise that the presence of potentially armed victims might indeed be a bit of a deterrent, or at least a factor in choosing the location (and potentially even the victims) of an intended attack. History tends to prove that so-called "active shooters" intentionally target victims unlikely to respond in kind. Whether Jihadis do the same or not is a great question, but if their intent is to create the greatest terror/chaos similar target selection criteria would be a good place to start.
Russ
Stay aware and engaged. Awareness buys time; time buys options. Survival may require moving quickly past the Observe, Orient and Decide steps to ACT.
NRA Life Member, CRSO, Basic Pistol, PPITH & PPOTH Instructor, Texas 4-H Certified Pistol & Rifle Coach, Texas LTC Instructor
User avatar

LSUTiger
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1139
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:36 pm

Re: Do you think CCW/CHL holders in US will be a Deterrent for Jihads?

#42

Post by LSUTiger »

BCGlocker wrote:What can we do to prepare ourselves for the inevitable attacks?
Maintain Situational Awareness

Carry a minimum EDC of gun/spare mag (s)/flashlight/knife

Don't go where you can't EDC

Chance favors the prepared. Making good people helpless doesn't make bad people harmless.
There is no safety in denial. When seconds count the Police are only minutes away.
Sometimes I really wish a lawyer would chime in and clear things up. Do we have any lawyers on this forum?

chuck j
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1983
Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 12:44 pm

Re: Do you think CCW/CHL holders in US will be a Deterrent for Jihads?

#43

Post by chuck j »

carlson1 wrote:It is not a deterrent because they are seeking death. Thm dying is how they are able to reach their paradise with 72 virgins. :mad5

I agree , these folks come with explosive vests . They want to die , don't think I could hold back several jihadists . You are in the wrong place at the wrong time if you run into them , they will simply kill indiscriminately like they have so far .
User avatar

mojo84
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 9043
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:07 pm
Location: Boerne, TX (Kendall County)

Re: Do you think CCW/CHL holders in US will be a Deterrent for Jihads?

#44

Post by mojo84 »

Saw this article and it made me think of this thread. I haven't read the entire thread so my apologies if this has already been posted.

https://reason.com/blog/2013/10/22/arme ... tion-to-te
In an interview with ABC News, Interpol Secretary General Ronald K. Noble said:

"Societies have to think about how they're going to approach the problem," Noble said. "One is to say we want an armed citizenry; you can see the reason for that. Another is to say the enclaves are so secure that in order to get into the soft target you're going to have to pass through extraordinary security."

"Enclaves" translates as "any place people gather," which could be a mall, a theater, a supermarket, a town square... That's an awful lot of secure perimeters to set up. No doubt, plenty of police unions and politically well-connected private security companies would love to see that effort made, but are you really going to throw a cordon up every time a few people gather to chat about the weather or have a barbecue? Unusually for a government official (he was the Undersecretary for Enforcement of the United States Department of the Treasury, in charge of the Secret Service as well as the ATF), Noble obviously sees that as a bit of a daunting challenge. He adds:

"Ask yourself: If that was Denver, Col., if that was Texas, would those guys have been able to spend hours, days, shooting people randomly?" Noble said, referring to states with pro-gun traditions. "What I'm saying is it makes police around the world question their views on gun control. It makes citizens question their views on gun control. You have to ask yourself, 'Is an armed citizenry more necessary now than it was in the past with an evolving threat of terrorism?' This is something that has to be discussed."

"For me it's a profound question," he continued. "People are quick to say 'gun control, people shouldn't be armed,' etc., etc. I think they have to ask themselves: 'Where would you have wanted to be? In a city where there was gun control and no citizens armed if you're in a Westgate mall, or in a place like Denver or Texas?'"
Note: Me sharing a link and information published by others does not constitute my endorsement, agreement, disagreement, my opinion or publishing by me. If you do not like what is contained at a link I share, take it up with the author or publisher of the content.
User avatar

Oldgringo
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 11203
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:15 pm
Location: Pineywoods of east Texas

Re: Do you think CCW/CHL holders in US will be a Deterrent for Jihads?

#45

Post by Oldgringo »

BCGlocker wrote:What can we do to prepare ourselves for the inevitable attacks?
Avoid large gatherings and maintain situational awareness. We pretty much know what an adult male jihadist may look like but we have no idea who/what is hidden under a Burka. (yes, that is profiling and I ain't sorry)
Post Reply

Return to “General Texas CHL Discussion”