Particpant in a school sponsored activity?

[oohrah]

I've read a lot of posts about prohibited school carry, and we are all familiar with this:

Sec. 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;

1. Regarding the bolded portion, most comments seem to agree that this do not affect a CHLer if a school activity shows up at a zoo, or park or other public place.

2. Many comments have also said that this does apply to participants in the school activity, regardless of location.

I cannot find any statute that addressees #2. My question:

If I am driving students to an off-campus school-sponsored activity in my POV (or also participating in the non-sporting activity as a teacher), am I committing an offense by having my weapon concealed in my car. Where in the PC would this violation be?

[bayou]

If it stays concealed in your car and you don't CC then you are not under the LTC rules but the MPA. I may be wrong but if I am I'm sure someone will let me know.

[suthdj]

Spirit night at McDonalds you walk in and the event is going on, or go to event with your child.

[thetexan]

I've read a lot of posts about prohibited school carry, and we are all familiar with this:

Sec. 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;

1. Regarding the bolded portion, most comments seem to agree that this do not affect a CHLer if a school activity shows up at a zoo, or park or other public place.

2. Many comments have also said that this does apply to participants in the school activity, regardless of location.

I cannot find any statute that addressees #2. My question:

If I am driving students to an off-campus school-sponsored activity in my POV (or also participating in the non-sporting activity as a teacher), am I committing an offense by having my weapon concealed in my car. Where in the PC would this violation be?

As to #1....although it SEEMS reasonable to believe otherwise, there is nothing other than speculation and unfounded interpretation that the phrase "any grounds" does not mean exactly what it says. If you want to INTERPRET it to mean something else, of course, that is up to you. But it says what it says and stands clearly alone on the common usage and meaning of that phrase without the assistance of any interpretation.

As to #2...46.035j is what you are looking for.

tex

[oohrah]

tex, 46.035j refers to historical reenactment.

[thetexan]

Im sorry.

46.035b2

[bayou]

Tex,
Excuse my ignorance if I am wrong but doesn't 46.02a2 allow for the gun to be concealed in the vehicle?
PC §46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS.
(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person’s own premises or premises under the person’s control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person’s control.

and for 46.035b2 the definition of premises is

(3) “Premises” means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

As long as the handgun stays concealed in the vehicle it should be ok correct? I am not trying to be argumentative but trying to make sure I have a firm grasp of the statutes myself.

I know that 46.05a1 states grounds on which an activity is being conducted. But unless the activity is taking place in the parking lot your vehicle would not be on the space the activity is being conducted.

Thanks

[thetexan]

I guess I've missed your question.

I thought you were asking about participants being an exception.

Can you re-ask the question again more clearly please?

tex

[bayou]

Sorry. The OP had written:

If I am driving students to an off-campus school-sponsored activity in my POV (or also participating in the non-sporting activity as a teacher), am I committing an offense by having my weapon concealed in my car. Where in the PC would this violation be?

I thought it was ok to have it concealed in the car and not on his person.

Thanks
bayou

[oohrah]

I thought it was ok to have it concealed in the car and not on his person.

Thanks
bayou

to elaborate, why couldn't I have it on my person? If I'm not on "premises", I don't see where a participant is prohibited off campus. that's my question. I'll accept the MPA argument for concealed in the vehicle.

[bayou]

Sec 46.03a1 says you can't. From what I understand if its a planned official school activity you can't be there as a participant or observer. That's where the grounds or building come into play.

[thetexan]

Sorry. The OP had written:

If I am driving students to an off-campus school-sponsored activity in my POV (or also participating in the non-sporting activity as a teacher), am I committing an offense by having my weapon concealed in my car. Where in the PC would this violation be?

I thought it was ok to have it concealed in the car and not on his person.

Thanks
bayou

Let's break it down a part at a time.

1. 46.02 allows you to drive with a concealed handgun in the vehicle as long as the vehicle does not go where it doesn't belong listed in 46.03.

2. Now, what if you are carrying people while driving this gun-laden vehicle? There is nothing in statutes prohibiting exercising the rights under 46.02 while carrying passengers.

3. Now, what if those passengers are students being carried to a school sponsored event? There is nothing in the statute that elevates the status of a passenger to "somebody special" simply because that person is a student that you are taking to a school sponsored event...again as long as the vehicle does not go where it doesn't belong.

4. 46.03a1 goes on to state..."or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;..."

The phrase "of a school" can mean "ownership" or it can mean "used by" according to the common meaning and usage of the phrase. Since your vehicle is owned by you all that is left is to determine if it is being used by or for or at the behest of the school. If the school asked you to transport students for the expressed purpose of getting them to the event then I believe your car qualifies as a "passenger transportation vehicle of a school" since you are acting at the behest and facilitation of the school event. In that case your transportation of the students would have to be pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution (as required by 46.03a1 if you carry a gun under 46.02 and the restrictions of 46.03). If it doesn't qualify as a "passenger transportation vehicle of a school" then there is no further requirement, the students are just personal passengers and we are back to making sure the vehicle does not go where it doesn't belong...which includes "any grounds" under 46.03.

5. The prohibitions given under 46.03, (which list where you can't go while carrying a gun including under the authority of 46.02), includes "any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or education institution is being conducted...". So while exercising your right under 46.02 (doesn't require a license) 46.03 won't let you go onto any grounds where the school sponsored event is taking place. Under 46.03 that leaves a non-licensed teacher out, meaning you can't park your car on the grounds at that location, teacher or otherwise...participant or otherwise...because you would be carrying under the authority of 46.02 which does not provide an exception to the prohibitions in 46.03 for non license holders similar to the exception for carrying license holders given under 46.035b2. Let's look at that.

6. AS A LICENSED TEACHER 46.035 gives special privileges and exceptions to 46.03 to license holders. It states that you commit an offense unless you are a "participant" in the event and a handgun is used in the event". I believe the word "participant" here would be taken to mean a coach or actual shooting participant rather than a concealed, armed teacher going as a chaperone or transporter of participants to the event. You stipulate that it would be a non-sporting event.

So what does this all mean when you put it to use.

1. You will never go wrong if you are carrying a concealed gun in your personal vehicle under the authority of 46.02, passengers or otherwise, students or otherwise, elderly or otherwise, anyone or otherwise as long as you obey the constraints as to where you can have that vehicle and where you can't have that vehicle. Those are enumerated in 46.02 (non residence, non vehicle, non watercraft, or directly enroute thereto) and in 46.03 (general prohibitions including "any grounds").

2. As a license holder you gain some privileges including going ON THOSE GROUNDS previously prohibited under 46.03 as long as you are a participant in a school event that uses guns. If you are not a participant or the event does not use guns then you gain no additional privileges under 46.035b2, so you are limited, in this situation, by the constraints given in 46.02 and 46.03 which requires you to avoid the grounds where the event is taking place.


Hope that answers your question.

tex

[bayou]

Thanks.

[allisji]

Sec. 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;

Could your personal privately owned vehicle be considered a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, if you are using it to transport students on behalf of the school to the off-campus school sponsored event?

[thetexan]

My guess is yes because of the implied contract between you the driver agreeing to carry their students as a result of being asked to do so, and the school who makes the request.

Can you imagine if, while carrying 6 students, after being asked by a school official to do so, you drive intoxicated and have a crash and kill your student passengers?! Every parent would have every right to hold the school liable for the deaths. So there are consequences for asking for someone's help.

It would be a simple task to determine if you were transporting kids because it's you turn among the parents or if you driving because the school official asked you to drive the swim team to the pool and you graciously agreed.

Even at that, there is a question if "of the school" CAN mean simply "used by" as opposed to "owned by".

tex