City of Houston ordinance to force 30.06 signs?

[ubrmnky]

This morning I spoke with the manager of a local gas station and convenience store of which I have been a longtime customer about his recently posted 30.06 and 30.07 signs. He told me that it was nothing personal and he has nothing against LTC holders, but that the "new City of Houston ordinance" forced him to post the signs. While I was speaking with him, I had the feeling that he genuinely believes there is such an ordinance.

I'm not a lawyer, is there any such ordinance in the City of Houston requiring anyone to post 30.06 or .07 signs? If not, I'm afraid he and possibly other business owners may have mistaken the option to post the signs as mandatory due to the media coverage.

By the way, the store manager was very nice, thanked me for speaking with him and told me that he would try to find out some more information from his side as well.

Does anyone have any ideas about this being Houston making it mandatory for any signs like this to be posted?

[mojo84]

I am confident there is some miscommunication involved in this situation, either intentional or unintentional. If there were such an ordinance passed, I'm sure we would have heard about it.

[JP171]

I have heard of something similar down here on the coast, convenience store owners being told its state law that they have to post these signs. I am not sure who has been telling them this but after talking to the manager/owner of 2 stores here in San Leon and both of them saying the same thing I believe that someone is in fact giving out false information.

[ubrmnky]

I have heard of something similar down here on the coast, convenience store owners being told its state law that they have to post these signs. I am not sure who has been telling them this but after talking to the manager/owner of 2 stores here in San Leon and both of them saying the same thing I believe that someone is in fact giving out false information.

I'm in the Clear Lake area so maybe it is someone locally giving out this information.

[EastTexasRancher]

GHRA seems to be behind many of these new signs:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=82511

[Scott in Houston]

What I've heard repeated is that many places who do not want open carry, believe that if you post a 30.07 then you must also post a 30.06. In other words, they're not aware or are being told that posting solely a 30.07 sign is ok.

[Jusme]

This the tactics of MDA and other anti gun groups they were out in force spreading these lies and telling business owners that they had to post both signs to be compliant with the new laws. They didn't let a little thing like the truth stand in their way. They preyed upon people fears of having masses of armed militia men invade their stores, told them the signs would prevent robbers from coming in, and relied on their ignorance of the law, especially those who are immigrants and English not being their first language. They were most prolific in large cities like Houston, Austin, Dallas, and San Antonio.

[remington79]

If there was actually an ordinance it would violate the state pre-emption law and would be void anyway.

[Oldgringo]

It's been about 18 years since I was last in Houston.....I'm okay with that.

[darkmavis9]

If there was actually an ordinance it would violate the state pre-emption law and would be void anyway.

Yep

[C-dub]

They don't seem to be able to follow their own advice. The following is from Houston's own FAQ page. Maybe the CoH will try to reclassify their government offices as an amusement park.

http://www.houstontx.gov/police/open_carry/

13. Can my employer prohibit me from carrying a firearm at work?
Yes. A public or private employer may prohibit employees from possessing any firearms on the premises of the employer’s business, even if the employee is licensed to carry a handgun.
All City of Houston employees, except those who are required to do so in the performance of their official duties, are prohibited from possessing weapons while on duty, in a city vehicle, or while on city property. The prohibition does not extend to off-duty possession by a handgun license holder in a public area as authorized by state law. City employees are not prohibited from transporting or storing a firearm or ammunition in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in accordance with state law. See Sec. 14-184 of the City Code of Ordinances and the Mayor’s Executive Order 1-37.

14. What places are firearms (including handguns) forbidden by law?
Even if you are licensed to carry a handgun, Texas law prohibits persons from intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possessing or carrying any firearm:
• On physical premises of a school or educational institution (unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution) but see question 16 regarding campus carry
• On grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted (unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution) but see question 16 regarding campus carry
• On passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution (unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution) but see question 16 regarding campus carry
• On premises of a polling place on the day of an election or while early voting is in progress
• On premises of any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court
• On premises of a racetrack
• In or into a secured area of an airport under federal law
• Within 1,000 feet of premises designated by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice as a place of execution on a day that a sentence of death is set to be imposed on the premises and the person received notice that doing so is prohibited (unless the person is on a public road and going to or from his home or business)

15. If I have a license to carry a handgun, are there any other places state law forbids me from carrying my handgun openly or concealed?
Yes. You may not conceal or openly carry a handgun:
• On the premises of a business that is licensed by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission and that derives 51 percent or more of its business from the sale of alcohol (if a sign is posted as described in Texas Government Code Section 411.204)
• On the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event is taking place, unless the handgun is used for the event (effective August 1, 2016, notice must be given under Section 30.06 of the Penal Code for a collegiate sporting event)
• On the premises of a correctional facility
• On the premises of a state licensed hospital or nursing home (if signs are posted as described in Texas Penal Code Sections 30.06 and 30.07 and Government Code Section 411.204)
• In an amusement park (if notice is given as described in Texas Penal Code Section 30.06 and 30.07)
• On the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship (if notice is given as described in Texas Penal Code Section 30.06 and 30.07)
• Into any meeting of a governmental entity that is subject to the Open Meetings Act (if notice is given as per Government Code Chapter 551 and as described in Texas Penal Code Section 30.06 and 30.07)
• Anytime the handgun is not in a belt or shoulder holster and not concealed
• Anytime you carry a handgun while intoxicated

17. Can I carry at a governmental institution if I have a handgun license?
Yes, you may generally carry in state and local governmental institutions but see Questions 13, 14, and 15 for exceptions. Also, a peace officer may temporarily disarm a license holder when he or she enters a nonpublic, secure portion of a law enforcement facility.
A license to carry a handgun gives no special right of access to parts of governmental buildings and facilities that are not open to the general public.
You may not carry on federal properties in most circumstances. You may not knowingly possess or cause to be present a firearm in federal facilities operated by federal agencies, such as the IRS, SSA, USDA, and federal courts, unless you are a federal or state law enforcement officer or a member of the armed forces authorized by federal law to carry at that location or are hunting on federal property in accordance with federal law. See 18 U.S.C. § 930.
Law Enforcement Interaction

[Pariah3j]

I suspect the sign makers are giving them the bad info in order to sell twice as many signs.

[tommyg]

If they do not want my gun than their competition will get my business

[C-dub]

They don't seem to be able to follow their own advice. The following is from Houston's own FAQ page. Maybe the CoH will try to reclassify their government offices as an amusement park.

http://www.houstontx.gov/police/open_carry/

13. Can my employer prohibit me from carrying a firearm at work?
Yes. A public or private employer may prohibit employees from possessing any firearms on the premises of the employer’s business, even if the employee is licensed to carry a handgun.
All City of Houston employees, except those who are required to do so in the performance of their official duties, are prohibited from possessing weapons while on duty, in a city vehicle, or while on city property. The prohibition does not extend to off-duty possession by a handgun license holder in a public area as authorized by state law. City employees are not prohibited from transporting or storing a firearm or ammunition in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in accordance with state law. See Sec. 14-184 of the City Code of Ordinances and the Mayor’s Executive Order 1-37.

14. What places are firearms (including handguns) forbidden by law?
Even if you are licensed to carry a handgun, Texas law prohibits persons from intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possessing or carrying any firearm:
• On physical premises of a school or educational institution (unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution) but see question 16 regarding campus carry
• On grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted (unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution) but see question 16 regarding campus carry
• On passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution (unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution) but see question 16 regarding campus carry
• On premises of a polling place on the day of an election or while early voting is in progress
• On premises of any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court
• On premises of a racetrack
• In or into a secured area of an airport under federal law
• Within 1,000 feet of premises designated by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice as a place of execution on a day that a sentence of death is set to be imposed on the premises and the person received notice that doing so is prohibited (unless the person is on a public road and going to or from his home or business)

15. If I have a license to carry a handgun, are there any other places state law forbids me from carrying my handgun openly or concealed?
Yes. You may not conceal or openly carry a handgun:
• On the premises of a business that is licensed by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission and that derives 51 percent or more of its business from the sale of alcohol (if a sign is posted as described in Texas Government Code Section 411.204)
• On the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event is taking place, unless the handgun is used for the event (effective August 1, 2016, notice must be given under Section 30.06 of the Penal Code for a collegiate sporting event)
• On the premises of a correctional facility
• On the premises of a state licensed hospital or nursing home (if signs are posted as described in Texas Penal Code Sections 30.06 and 30.07 and Government Code Section 411.204)
• In an amusement park (if notice is given as described in Texas Penal Code Section 30.06 and 30.07)
• On the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship (if notice is given as described in Texas Penal Code Section 30.06 and 30.07)
• Into any meeting of a governmental entity that is subject to the Open Meetings Act (if notice is given as per Government Code Chapter 551 and as described in Texas Penal Code Section 30.06 and 30.07)
• Anytime the handgun is not in a belt or shoulder holster and not concealed
• Anytime you carry a handgun while intoxicated

17. Can I carry at a governmental institution if I have a handgun license?
Yes, you may generally carry in state and local governmental institutions but see Questions 13, 14, and 15 for exceptions. Also, a peace officer may temporarily disarm a license holder when he or she enters a nonpublic, secure portion of a law enforcement facility.
A license to carry a handgun gives no special right of access to parts of governmental buildings and facilities that are not open to the general public.
You may not carry on federal properties in most circumstances. You may not knowingly possess or cause to be present a firearm in federal facilities operated by federal agencies, such as the IRS, SSA, USDA, and federal courts, unless you are a federal or state law enforcement officer or a member of the armed forces authorized by federal law to carry at that location or are hunting on federal property in accordance with federal law. See 18 U.S.C. § 930.
Law Enforcement Interaction

Coming back to this tonight I realize I was confused between the two threads between Houston and Austin where Austin was continuing to give oral notice after taking their signs down. Sorry about that.

[K.Mooneyham]

This is just another one of those things that keeps me from feeling regret that I live out on the edge of nowhere. I hope eventually this kind of stuff gets cleared up. It's obviously going to take some work.